Natural Selection: Random or Not?

[SavedByChrist94]

If Natural Selection is Random, then it didn't cause Evolution, this is why Evolutionist argue that it isn't Random, however they trap themselves,

Something that is Not Random, is Intentional, it is a Logical Impossibility to say otherwise, either something has Intent, which means it is not random, or something has no Intent, making it all without a Purpose/Accidental.

Which is it? Random or Not? If not then Intentional, and Evolution is just Creation in a nutshell.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Something that is Not Random, is Intentional

This is a fallacious argument. The rest of your assertion is, therefore, wrong and meaningless.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

This is a fallacious argument. The rest of your assertion is, therefore, wrong and meaningless.

Random - Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective: random movements. See Synonyms at chance random - definition of random by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

What i said is not an assertion or fallacious, it is true, Something that is Not Random, is Intentional. your assertion is therefore wrong.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Something that is Not Random, is Intentional

Gravity is not random. Gravity is not intentional. You fail.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Gravity is not random. Gravity is not intentional. You fail.

Gravity is not Intentional? How, you cannot merely assert this.

Also that is a logical impossiblity, that's like saying I decided to eat chocolate and I randomly ate chocolate, was it random or did you decide? can't be both.

Likewise Gravity cannot be both random and intentional, one or the other, Also how do you know Gravity was not Intentional?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

What i said is not an assertion or fallacious, it is true,

Your OP made an assertion and your claim that "not random = intentional" is fallacious

Do you understand what those terms mean?

 

[QueSi]

If Natural Selection is Random, then it didn't cause Evolution, this is why Evolutionist argue that it isn't Random, however they trap themselves,

Something that is Not Random, is Intentional, it is a Logical Impossibility to say otherwise, either something has Intent, which means it is not random, or something has no Intent, making it all without a Purpose/Accidental.

Which is it? Random or Not? If not then Intentional, and Evolution is just Creation in a nutshell.

Natural selection is not random.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Your OP made an assertion and your claim that "not random = intentional" is fallacious

Do you understand what those terms mean?

That's because random is, not intentional, that's the very definition Merriam Webster - a : lacking a definite plan, purpose, or pattern
b : made, done, or chosen at random <read random passages from the book>


Random - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Natural selection is not random.

Therefore Intentional.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gravity is not Intentional? How, you cannot merely assert this.

Do you have evidence that it is intentional?

Likewise Gravity cannot be both random and intentional, one or the other

No, I claim it is neither. Like prime numbers. They are neither random, nor are they intentional. They come directly from their definitions, not from some old woman picking numbers at random, or some old man picking numbers he intends.

 

[QueSi]

Therefore Intentional.

Umm I guess since only the strong survive and thrive...yes?? It must be natures intent to survive and thrive - natural selection.

 

[ebia]

Therefore Intentional.

Doesn't follow. Random is unpredictable. Something can be predictable but not intentional. Pattern can exist without intention. I.e. random and intentional are (at least at a simplistic naive level) mutually exclusive but not exhaustive.


Btw, not that it matters much here, dictionary definitions are not generally up to be pressed for the kind of precision an argument like yours would need. Random is actually a pretty subtle concept.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Doesn't follow. Random is unpredictable. Something can be predictable but not intentional. Pattern can exist without intention.

1, Random is not only Unpredictible but Unintentional, without purpose.

2, Demonstrate something without intent that has a predictible pattern.

No, I claim it is neither.

No, you claimed it is not.

Like prime numbers. They are neither random, nor are they intentional. They come directly from their definitions, not from some old woman picking numbers at random, or some old man picking numbers he intends.

How are prime numbers random yet not intentional, demonstrate.

Umm I guess since only the strong survive and thrive...yes?? It must be natures intent to survive and thrive - natural selection.

Nature has an intent to survive? if it has an intent to survive then it needs to be conscious to have an intent, if not then unintentional.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Demonstrate something without intent that has a predictible pattern.

Crystal formation in rocks or ice.

 

[QueSi]

1, Random is not only Unpredictible but Unintentional, without purpose.

2, Demonstrate something without intent that has a predictible pattern.

No, you claimed it is not.

How are prime numbers random yet not intentional, demonstrate.

Nature has an intent to survive? if it has an intent to survive then it needs to be conscious to have an intent, if not then unintentional.

Yes, nature has an intent to survive. Are you suggesting that people who are unconscious should die immediately? Their bodies have an intent to survive, yet they are not conscious. How does this...what the...why in the... They are all faking it! Ha they aren't unconscious are they...I'll know next time...play possum with me again will ya.

 

[ebia]

1, Random is not only Unpredictible but Unintentional, without purpose.

Says who? A mathematical understanding of "random" really does boil down to nothing much other than "unpredictable".


In common usage "random" can mean "unintentional" or it can mean "unpredictable". In scientific usage it normally means the later.

2, Demonstrate something without intent that has a predictible pattern.

Any scientific or mathematical law.

 

[ebia]

How are prime numbers random yet not intentional, demonstrate.

He gave prime numbers as an example of something that is neither intentional nor random.

 

[Michael]

If Natural Selection is Random,

That's your error by the way. Natural selection is not random. The DNA mutation might have a seemingly "random" cause (radiation for instance), but the "selection" in terms of what DNA survives to reproduce isn't "random" at all. The selection process that you describe is related to procreation, and whether or not the modification in the DNA is of *benefit* or is a *handicap* in terms of survival. If the change in DNA increases the odds of survival, that gene is passed on to future generations. If the change decreases the odds of survival, it doesn't live to procreate, or it's ancestors do not live to procreate and that DNA is lost.

Sometimes the "stress factor" of a species relates to the introduction of a new bacteria, or a change in the local environment. The "surviving mutation" is typically designed to counter that stress factor:

07.12.2007 - Researchers witness natural selection at work in dramatic comeback of male butterflies

The actual DNA mutation, and even the stress factors may be "random" to a degree, but the survival of the mutated DNA isn't random in the least. The odds of survival of the mutated DNA depends entirely upon it *increasing* the odds of survival.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

He gave prime numbers as an example of something that is neither intentional nor random.

And he'll need to demonstrate how it is not random and not intentional.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Crystal formation in rocks or ice.

How are there patterns unpredictible, the fact that they are rocks or ice already prove they have a specific property, you'd have to prove the property to be unpredictable.