Natural Evil

[juvenissun]

They would if they lived there, it's contextual.

Why should a God that troubles me be any more or less likely than one that doesn't?

I agree with the sentiment, just not the logic.

A universe with a God looks exactly like one without, since the idea of God is flexible enough to cover all observations.

It is a vacuous concept until we start to assert the nature of God uncompromisingly in a way that COULD be contradicted by our observations, or allow our observations to define what we would think God to be like.

In fact, you pointed out a very essential natural of a god. If a god has no interaction with human, then we do not care if such a god existed or not.

But a god may control the functions of natural power, and the natural power has interaction with human who lives in the nature. So this god has indirect relation with human. If natural disasters killed human, that god sits directly behind it.

So, if we don't like to see the loss of human life in natural disasters, then we do not like to see the existence of that god.

 

[variant]

In fact, you pointed out a very essential natural of a god. If a god has no interaction with human, then we do not care if such a god existed or not.

It's not an essential nature of God, it's a commentary that humanity is fairly self centered.

But a god may control the functions of natural power, and the natural power has interaction with human who lives in the nature. So this god has indirect relation with human. If natural disasters killed human, that god sits directly behind it.

So, if we don't like to see the loss of human life in natural disasters, then we do not like to see the existence of that god.

You keep committing the same logical error though. What we like has no baring on what is.

If my observations lead me to believe that there was a God and it liked torturing humans I would believe that.

Atheists exist I think, mainly because they don't see a God as evident and they see religion as a reflection of what humanity wants God to be like rather than a good metaphysical commentary on the universe.

Religion is for humans, it tries to make them feel better about the universe, and tries to give their life purpose meaning and direction.

The universe is not necessarily for humans, we inhabit a very small fraction of it and even then with some difficulties.

The only contradiction here is that you think there is a God that exists for your preferences. That is free to be false in any world view.

 

[kristina411]

Evil implies there is motive behind the act. Natural disasters are without motivation and are simply natural disasters.
I wont go into detail but it all brings its way back to sin. Sin is our separation and so long as we are separated by sin, there will always be disasters of some form. This is the reason for judgement day, heaven can not be perfect if it is full of sinners and unbelievers, it would take away from the perfection which is impossible.
So long as we are not in heaven, there will be sadness and loss. It is tragic but that is life when we are not seeking Gods presence.
Tragedies happen, even to the most faithful, because of the corruption throughout the entire world. Why do you assume the Amish isolate themselves?

 

[variant]

Evil implies there is motive behind the act. Natural disasters are without motivation and are simply natural disasters.
I wont go into detail but it all brings its way back to sin. Sin is our separation and so long as we are separated by sin, there will always be disasters of some form.

Here again, hurricanes happen because of humanities sinful nature?

That sounds incredibly wrong.

 

[kristina411]

Here again, hurricanes happen because of humanities sinful nature?

That sounds incredibly wrong.

Hurricanes happen as a result of living in an imperfect world, a world that is imperfect because we sin. If all of humanity were sin free there would be no more natural disasters because we will be in a perfect place, a place given by God. Earth was given by God, without blemish, until sin entered the world which created blemish. Its not about a fruit, its about the nature behind that action which was sin. The corruption of everything began with sin and continues today.

I was not made for this world, I was made for more than this. We all were.

 

[variant]

Hurricanes happen as a result of living in an imperfect world, a world that is imperfect because we sin. If all of humanity were sin free there would be no more natural disasters because we will be in a perfect place, a place given by God. Earth was given by God, without blemish, until sin entered the world which created blemish. Its not about a fruit, its about the nature behind that action which was sin. The corruption of everything began with sin and continues today.

I was not made for this world, I was made for more than this. We all were.

Yeah I feel incredibly dismissive of the idea that if people stopped sinning there wouldn't be any earthquakes.

Also earlier generations suffered from naturally occurring things like polio and I doubt it was because they were more sinful.

 

[bhsmte]

How do you compromise between a god and natural disasters (that kill)? You simply can not.

A god who allows massive death with no purpose? Why do we want that god?

Purpose?

In our history of natural disasters and how they randomly impact people, I would have to question any "purpose" a God would attach to that and question what type of God would do that.

 

[bhsmte]

Hurricanes happen as a result of living in an imperfect world, a world that is imperfect because we sin. If all of humanity were sin free there would be no more natural disasters because we will be in a perfect place, a place given by God. Earth was given by God, without blemish, until sin entered the world which created blemish. Its not about a fruit, its about the nature behind that action which was sin. The corruption of everything began with sin and continues today.

I was not made for this world, I was made for more than this. We all were.

Randomly kill people with natural disasters because there is sin in the world?

If you can reconcile that type of thought process, knock yourself out.

 

[kristina411]

Yeah I feel incredibly dismissive of the idea that if people stopped sinning there wouldn't be any earthquakes.

Also earlier generations suffered from naturally occurring things like polio and I doubt it was because they were more sinful.

We suffer the same as those in the past, we just have new illnesses taking lives. Cancer, HIV, heart disease. We suffer because of our sin and the sins before us. Its not up to me to convince you. If you close yourself off to the truth, you will not find it.
Take care.

 

[bhsmte]

We suffer the same as those in the past, we just have new illnesses taking lives. Cancer, HIV, heart disease. We suffer because of our sin and the sins before us. Its not up to me to convince you. If you close yourself off to the truth, you will not find it.
Take care.

Do you think all humans suffer equally during their life?

 

[kristina411]

Randomly kill people with natural disasters because there is sin in the world?

If you can reconcile that type of thought process, knock yourself out.

It is a cause and effect situation. A finger is not pointed and a great voice sounding out "I want those people killed". We live on this Earth, as a result of those before us. We live in the way we do because of the people who came before. Our lives are a result of their choices. You can not eat a cheeseburger without it being a direct result of someone else's choice in many ways. Everything is cause and effect, evolution is cause and effect. Natural disasters are cause and effect.
Everything that does not produce goodness and holiness produces darkness and as a result we are left with immeasurable disasters.

 

[kristina411]

Do you think all humans suffer equally during their life?

Oh certainly not. Not even in my own marriage. My husband had a much easier life than I have, my eldest daughter has had much more pain than the youngest.

What I do know, my hardships as well as my daughters have all been results of sin, ours or someone else's. And more often than not, those who suffer the greatest at around the biggest of sinners.

 

[bhsmte]

Oh certainly not. Not even in my own marriage. My husband had a much easier life than I have, my eldest daughter has had much more pain than the youngest.

What I do know, my hardships as well as my daughters have all been results of sin, ours or someone else's. And more often than not, those who suffer the greatest at around the biggest of sinners.

I guess it is good to stay away from those sinners then.

Also, to show your "cause and effect' statement, you would have to support your statement with evidence, that those who suffer the most, are either around the most sinners or perform more sin themselves.

Good luck with that.

 

[kristina411]

I guess it is good to stay away from those sinners then.

Also, to show your "cause and effect' statement, you would have to support your statement with evidence, that those who suffer the most, are either around the most sinners or perform more sin themselves.

Good luck with that.

Much easier than you assume. Abuse survivors are around abusive people clearly, and abuse (according to the new testament law) is sinful. The innocent who suffer in war zones suffer at the hands of sinners. Sex slaves, at the hands of sinners. Child factories, at the hands of sinners. Murder victims, at the hands of sinners.
Natural disasters quickly wipe out many people on rare occasions. As a human race we do this every day to greater numbers. We do not even have the grace to make it end quickly but allow others to suffer for our satisfaction.
Cause and effect.
A child is starving right now here in America as a result of me typing this message. I do not need a smart phone to go online, I could have gotten a basic phone and given the extra money to a child who would be saved by a meal. But I am consumed by sin (although I try to fight it)so I think I deserve this phone and ignore the child starving.
Hurricanes/tornadoes/etc are a result of living in an imperfect world that was made imperfect the moment sin entered its dwellings.

 

[bhsmte]

Much easier than you assume. Abuse survivors are around abusive people clearly, and abuse (according to the new testament law) is sinful. The innocent who suffer in war zones suffer at the hands of sinners. Sex slaves, at the hands of sinners. Child factories, at the hands of sinners. Murder victims, at the hands of sinners.
Natural disasters quickly wipe out many people on rare occasions. As a human race we do this every day to greater numbers. We do not even have the grace to make it end quickly but allow others to suffer for our satisfaction.
Cause and effect.
A child is starving right now here in America as a result of me typing this message. I do not need a smart phone to go online, I could have gotten a basic phone and given the extra money to a child who would be saved by a meal. But I am consumed by sin (although I try to fight it)so I think I deserve this phone and ignore the child starving.
Hurricanes/tornadoes/etc are a result of living in an imperfect world that was made imperfect the moment sin entered its dwellings.

Why don't you start with the 9 million children who die each year before the age of five and many of which, with immense suffering.

Now, think about the suffering the parents and families incurred and all the prayers to save their child that were not answered.

Start with that group, who has suffered quite a bit and demonstrate how their suffering is related to being around more sinners or sinning more themselves.

 

[quatona]

Hurricanes/tornadoes/etc are a result of living in an imperfect world that was made imperfect the moment sin entered its dwellings.

Could you make an attempt at describing how exactly sin caused/causes hurricanes and tornadoes?

 

[kristina411]

Why don't you start with the 9 million children who die each year before the age of five and many of which, with immense suffering.

Now, think about the suffering the parents and families incurred and all the prayers to save their child that were not answered.

Start with that group, who has suffered quite a bit and demonstrate how their suffering is related to being around more sinners or sinning more themselves.

Who are these 9 million children that die? If you are speaking in general terms you would need to break down the reasons each child dies. If you want to go into the ones whose lives were lost by disease, born with deformities... The bible explains that this is caused by sin from our ancestors. It is tragic but it is the result of the sin before us still effecting us so that we know sin has lasting and tragic effects.

 

[bhsmte]

Who are these 9 million children that die? If you are speaking in general terms you would need to break down the reasons each child dies. If you want to go into the ones whose lives were lost by disease, born with deformities... The bible explains that this is caused by sin from our ancestors. It is tragic but it is the result of the sin before us still effecting us so that we know sin has lasting and tragic effects.

You are the one attaching sin to the cause and effect of people suffering, not me. It would be up to you to demonstrate how people being around sinners and or being sinners themselves, will cause them to incur a greater amount of suffering.

We will await patiently, for you to support your position, with specifics.

 

[kristina411]

Could you make an attempt at describing how exactly sin caused/causes hurricanes and tornadoes?

Hurricanes/tornadoes/etc are a result of living in an imperfect world that was made imperfect the moment sin entered its dwellings
^that is my explanation.
We can all agree that natural disasters are imperfect in our world. Our world was made imperfect when sin enters. We are to know suffering and loss so we know the effect sin has on the world. Once sin became a part of the world, perfection left, until Jesus who was able to cure the ill and raise the dead. But none have become perfect since and therefore we cannot be saved from despair to some degree until we are made perfect, and for some they believe it will not happen until the next life.

 

[bhsmte]

Hurricanes/tornadoes/etc are a result of living in an imperfect world that was made imperfect the moment sin entered its dwellings
^that is my explanation.
We can all agree that natural disasters are imperfect in our world. Our world was made imperfect when sin enters. We are to know suffering and loss so we know the effect sin has on the world. Once sin became a part of the world, perfection left, until Jesus who was able to cure the ill and raise the dead. But none have become perfect since and therefore we cannot be saved from despair to some degree until we are made perfect, and for some they believe it will not happen until the next life.

And I could say, natural disasters are the result of a creator just enjoying inflicting suffering on others and my claim would be just as valid as yours, since you fail to provide any objective support for your position.