National Israel is cursed forever !

Status
Not open for further replies.

anthony55

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2010
3,136
75
✟3,521.00
Faith
Calvinist
Mk 11:

11And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.

12And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:

13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.


The nation of Israel at one time in world history was representive of Gods covenant people here on earth and had many spiritual advantages over and above all other nations of the world..rom 3:

1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The oracles of God, meaning in short, important spiritual matters of the True God..

rom 9:

3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Much had been given to them as a nation in order to preserve her seperated from all other nations, in order for the messiah, to be born under Gods Law, to die the accursed for the seed of abraham..

Now Israels history as the special covenant people of God is riddled with unfaithfulness to God and apostacy, however, God tolerated her exisitnce up unto the promised seed was born, lived and died under the Law..

After the death of christ, of which national Israel was the chief culprit in bringing about, God Judged that nation as unworthy of eternal life acts 13:

45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

This is here a final confirmation of God rejecting and leaving israel, the etnic jews under His Judgement..

This is confirmed too in matt 21:

33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

israel as a nation , ethnic wise, had lost her distinction and spiritual privileges of being that nation that represented the kingdom of God on earth, and that privilege was being granted to a nation, the gentile church, which would bear that precious spiritual fruit unto God..This is too expressed in rom 11:

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

They have been cast away..and this casting away is final, as far as nationally is concerned, but not individually..but national Israel who, because of her favoured position, should have bore fruit, because of the outward advantages, which the fig tree indicated, but did not bear fruit, God cursed that nation, and that forever..



14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

National Israel will never again have spiritual significance in this world, all those advantages are forever forfieted, but this was always part of Gods eternal plan and purpose for that people..

matt 21:

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


It was the Lords doings, and as the wise man says:

ecc 3:

14I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

National Israel's rejection and curse is final..
 

anthony55

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2010
3,136
75
✟3,521.00
Faith
Calvinist
Many have been deceived to think that Gods Israel, to whom all the promises were made, is a particular race of people, but its not, Gods Israel to whom pertains the promises is ethnically diversified, comprised of men and women of all nationalites, its not a people of race, but of grace..

Jesus has given many indications that Israel according to the flesh was not the chosen People of God..and that their nation would be cut off even from its earthly privileges of once being in a National Covenant relationship with God..

Matt 21:

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Kingdom of God shall be Taken from you..and that once and for all..

All the earthly Glory Israel once had as being a People of God, a represenation of the Kingdom of God on earth, well that has been taken away from them by God..

Jesus was announcing her end and at the same time annoucing Gods New representative Nation, though really not new, but now being more manifested.. This Covenant people will be highlighted with both jew and gentiles for here on out, the Israel of God. This People [The Israel of God] did exist in the OT but was mostly jewish people who existed in national israel, but now would be the time for the gathering in of the gentiles who were of the Israel of God..

Look at the context of Matt 21 and it gives us clear evidence of the end of national Israel :

33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Mar 27, 2007
34,437
3,872
On the bus to Heaven
✟60,078.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have read it, and yes, it is final, she will never bear fruit again.

When does the fullness of the gentiles come in? Who are the natural branches of the olive tree? Who is grafted into the olive tree? Who does the olive tree represent? How will Israel be saved (v. 26)?
 
Upvote 0

anthony55

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2010
3,136
75
✟3,521.00
Faith
Calvinist
National Israel as God's Covenant People is long over ! -



The end of the Kingdom of God represented by National Covenant Israel is Illustrated by Jesus here:

Matt 22:

1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

And here lk 20:

9Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

10And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

11And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

12And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

13Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

15So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

16He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

17And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

18Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Notice vs 16 He [ God ] shall come and destroy these husbandmen [ National Israel] and shall give the vineyard [ Covenant representation of the Kingdom of God] to others [ the gentile church]..

Matt 21 43

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The word taken here is the greek word airo:

And means:


cause to cease

Jesus Christ death on the cross caused their end as Gods national Covenant People and later the confirmation of that was seen by the armies coming and destroying their worship capital..

So His taking away their privilege, caused it to cease..

Heb 8:

13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away/cease.

The National Covenant of Israel has become obsolete and Has ceased to exist, it has poof, vanished away..​
 
Upvote 0

nChrist

AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith
Site Supporter
Mar 21, 2003
21,118
17,842
Oklahoma, USA
✟902,160.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Isaiah 2:1-5 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many peoples shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. 4 And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of Jehovah.


Isaiah 9:2-7 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, thou hast increased their joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, thou hast broken as in the day of Midian. 5 For all the armor of the armed man in the tumult, and the garments rolled in blood, shall be for burning, for fuel of fire. 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Mar 27, 2007
34,437
3,872
On the bus to Heaven
✟60,078.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
hen:



I will get to that later in the study. I hope you have your bible out and are following along, this way you can see what I am presenting is the word of God.

You didn't answer any of the questions that I asked you.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Mar 27, 2007
34,437
3,872
On the bus to Heaven
✟60,078.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
National Israel as God's Covenant People is long over ! -



The end of the Kingdom of God represented by National Covenant Israel is Illustrated by Jesus here:

Matt 22:

1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

And here lk 20:

9Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

10And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

11And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

12And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

13Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

15So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

16He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

17And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

18Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Notice vs 16 He [ God ] shall come and destroy these husbandmen [ National Israel] and shall give the vineyard [ Covenant representation of the Kingdom of God] to others [ the gentile church]..

Matt 21 43

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The word taken here is the greek word airo:

And means:


cause to cease

Jesus Christ death on the cross caused their end as Gods national Covenant People and later the confirmation of that was seen by the armies coming and destroying their worship capital..

So His taking away their privilege, caused it to cease..

Heb 8:

13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away/cease.

The National Covenant of Israel has become obsolete and Has ceased to exist, it has poof, vanished away..​

No at all. The kingdom of God was not removed forever from Israel but merely postponed until such time that the 'time of the gentiles" is fulfilled. God future plan of redemption includes Israel.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Terral

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2004
1,635
49
Visit site
✟21,357.00
Faith
Christian
Hi Anthony:

National Israel Is Cursed Forever

No sir. Israel has received the 'spirit of stupor' (Rom. 11:8) and temporary blindness (Rom. 11:25), but all of that is coming to an end. Elijah is coming to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11) and that includes the prophesied "Kingdom to Israel" (Acts 1:6-8). The 'Tabernacle of David' will be restored (Acts 15:16-18) and Kingdom shall become the greatest Kingdom this world has seen for thousands and thousands of years. You are teaching a brand of "Replacement Theology" (Wiki) that has no basis in Biblical Reality whatsoever ...

Mk 11:11And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve ... (snip)

If you really want to make a solid presentation for our Church (#2 here) replacing the Nation of Israel, then begin by stating your thesis (1) with claims (2) and then offer supporting Scriptural evidence (3) to support your conclusions (4). Beginning your Topic with Scripture makes a weak case, because the readers is undecided about what you are attempting to prove IMHO ...

The nation of Israel at one time in world history was representative of Gods covenant people here on earth and had many spiritual advantages over and above all other nations of the world.. (snip)

Israel of the flesh remains God's 'chosen race' (1Peter 2:9) today and FOREVER. Period. I am confident that your Bible includes the Book of Revelation and the end times events that are certainly coming. Start at Rev. 7:4 to realize that those being sealed are from the Twelve Tribes of Israel ...

... After the death of christ, of which national Israel was the chief culprit in bringing about, God Judged that nation as unworthy of eternal life acts 13 ...

God's Plan was to offer the "Kingdom" to Israel in the "Gospel of the Kingdom" (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.), but some are 'chosen' (like Peter, John and James) and the rest are hardened (Rom. 11:7). God then sat the Kingdom of God aside to begin the process of gathering the members of the "Body of Christ" (Church #2) through the ministry of the Apostle Paul and the "Dispensation of God's Grace." My diagram showing the 'dispensational shift' is here:

32.jpg


Peter's Kingdom Bride Church is 'decreasing' like John the Baptist's ministry decreased and Christ's Ministry increased (John 3:30). The Holy Spirit is transferred from John to Christ in Matthew 3:15-16 'and' the Holy Spirit is separating Paul to increase his ministry to the Gentiles in Acts 13:2 the very same way.

52.jpg


However, the rest of the story includes the fact that the Holy Spirit is going to deposit the members of Christ's Body to the Lord (1Thes. 4:15-17) when our church puts on immortality (1Cor. 15:51-53) and 'then' the Holy Spirit will return to this earth to the waiting "Elijah" coming to restore all things. That is when the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue) will 'begin' and Elijah will gather the 'Late Rains' (James 5:7) Kingdom Bride by offering the "Gospel of the Kingdom" (Gospel #1), just like John the Baptist back in Matthew 3:1-6. God must restore 'heaven' first (see Acts 15:14 again = Christ's body) and THEN He can begin the restoration of 'all things' on this earth. If you will go back and study the Greek terms from Acts 3:21 (BlueLetterBible), then you will see that the term for 'times' (chronos) is plural (= 'two' times of restoration).


45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Anthony Commentary >> This is here a final confirmation of God rejecting and leaving israel, the etnic jews under His Judgement..

We disagree. God will continue offering the Kingdom to Israel through the period spanning the Book of Acts (see Paul's testimony leading up to Acts 28:28), which is to about 61 AD.

This is confirmed too in matt 21 ...

Anthony Commentary >> israel as a nation , ethnic wise, had lost her distinction and spiritual privileges of being that nation that represented the kingdom of God on earth, and that privilege was being granted to a nation, the gentile church, which would bear that precious spiritual fruit unto God..This is too expressed in rom 11 ...

No sir. This is where Anthony's Replacement Theology Train leaves the Scriptural Reality Tracks. Going all the way back to Abraham, we see Isaac (blood witness) and Jacob/Israel (water witness) taken from their father's side in the same way that Eve (water witness) and her seed (blood witness) came from Adam's side back in Genesis 2. Israel is a 'water witness' race that is a 'helper' to the Gentile nations in the same way that the Holy Spirit is the "Helper" of the Father/Son 'and' Eve is the water witness 'helper' of your father Adam.

We find transgression with Eve (1Tim. 2:14) 'and' transgression with Israel (Rom. 11:11), because that is how God's Plan is laid out and that is exactly how these things will be fulfilled. Yes. Israel 'is' God's chosen race, but chosen for what?? :0) The answer to that question is one that just might allow Anthony to see 'the Light' on his Replacement Theology Topic. Here is one clue: Israel is indeed coming to God, but BY WORKS (James 2:24); as they will EARN what God Himself has given 'us' (Body of Christ) for free ... ;0)

Our Mystery Body of Christ is going to leave this earth 'and' occupy the heavenly seats about to be vacated by Satan and his evil hosts. The reason that Elijah 'can' come to restore 'all things' is because the members of Christ's Body will be seated in those heavenly places pushing the heavenly levers and switches, so THEN God can begin restoring all things to Israel and 'all Israel will be saved' (Rom. 11:26) ...

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nChrist
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟531,725.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Every one claims his ideas are "what God says."

But the word of God in this case is absolutely crystal clear.

We read in Hosea 1

6And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. 7But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. 9Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. 11Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

No further comment is needed.
 
Upvote 0

anthony55

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2010
3,136
75
✟3,521.00
Faith
Calvinist
You didn't answer any of the questions that I asked you.

You are not addressing the scriptures I have presented. You should be able to answer your own questions and show us how what I am presenting from scripture is wrong. I will address some of the things you asked about when I get to it. My challenge to you is to show us if you can, what is inaccurate about my presentation

So please do not side track with questions if you are not willing to address what is already posted with scripture.
 
Upvote 0

anthony55

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2010
3,136
75
✟3,521.00
Faith
Calvinist
This ceasing of national Covenant Israel because of Her unbelief, was of the Lords doing Matt 21:42

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

It is marvellous in our eyes..Its the greek word :

thaumastos:


wonderful, marvellous

worthy of pious admiration, admirable, excellent

passing human comprehension

causing amazement joined with terror

marvellous

extraordinary, striking, surprising

It was a mystery unfolding, a plan being manifested..

Now rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Lets not kid ourselves, National Israel has been casted away, that is rejected, but for a noble eternal purpose.

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world[to God], what shall the receiving of them[ the elect remnant foreknown] be, but life from the dead?

Paul here would have Loved to see some of His kinsmen according to the flesh converted to Christ from their unbelief as He was, and so seeing , because most of them were dead in sin and blind, it would be as life from the dead.

Those in the Nation of Israel who were yet sons of God by election, the remnant of the election of grace, would be made alive from the dead..lk 15:24

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

So rom 11 15 as some erroneous teach, is not speaking about a future restoration of national covenant Israel, thats gone, but Paul was speaking about seeing some of his brethren according to the flesh, being grafted back into the olive tree..as he was..​
 
Upvote 0

nChrist

AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith
Site Supporter
Mar 21, 2003
21,118
17,842
Oklahoma, USA
✟902,160.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Ezekiel 38:14-23 NASB "Therefore prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "On that day when My people Israel are living securely, will you not know it? 15 "You will come from your place out of the remote parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly and a mighty army; 16 and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog." 17 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them? 18 "It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," declares the Lord GOD, "that My fury will mount up in My anger. 19 "In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 "The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 "I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains," declares the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother. 22 "With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. 23 "I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD."'

Ezekiel 39:1-7 NASB "And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal; 2 and I will turn you around, drive you on, take you up from the remotest parts of the north and bring you against the mountains of Israel. 3 "I will strike your bow from your left hand and dash down your arrows from your right hand. 4 "You will fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you as food to every kind of predatory bird and beast of the field. 5 "You will fall on the open field; for it is I who have spoken," declares the Lord GOD. 6 "And I will send fire upon Magog and those who inhabit the coastlands in safety; and they will know that I am the LORD. 7 "My holy name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Ezekiel 39:17-22 NASB "As for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field, "Assemble and come, gather from every side to My sacrifice which I am going to sacrifice for you, as a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 "You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, as though they were rams, lambs, goats and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan. 19 "So you will eat fat until you are glutted, and drink blood until you are drunk, from My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. 20 "You will be glutted at My table with horses and charioteers, with mighty men and all the men of war," declares the Lord GOD. 21 "And I will set My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 "And the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God from that day onward.

Ezekiel 39:25-29 NASB Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name. 26 "They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. 27 "When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. 28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. 29 "I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.

Isaiah 2:1-5 NASB The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. 3 And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. 5 Come, house of Jacob, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Isaiah 9:2-7 NASB The people who walk in darkness Will see a great light; Those who live in a dark land, The light will shine on them. 3 You shall multiply the nation, You shall increase their gladness; They will be glad in Your presence As with the gladness of harvest, As men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders, The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian. 5 For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult, And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire. 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Isaiah 65:17-25 NASB "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. 18 "But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness. 19 "I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying. 20 "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed. 21 "They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, And My chosen ones will wear out the work of their hands. 23 "They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD, And their descendants with them. 24 "It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear. 25 "The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dispy

Veteran
Jan 16, 2004
2,551
32
92
South Dakota
✟4,680.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Anthony 55:

IMHO your interpretation of the Parable of the householder is in error, which makes you entire post suspect.

Matthew 21:33-46 (King James Version)

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder (God), which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen (rulers ofIsrael), and went into a far country:

(prophets, priest) to the husbandmen (rulers of Israel), that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen (rulers of Israel) took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he (God) sent other servants (prophets, priests) more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son (Jesus), saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen (rulers of Israel) saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew (crucified) him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone (Jesus) which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

(The chief priests and Pharisees no longer rule over Israel. Their kingdom has already been taken away. The nation that will replace it and be furitfull is found in Rev. 7:4-8. Their fruit is mentioned in vss. 9-15.)

46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
 
Upvote 0

anthony55

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2010
3,136
75
✟3,521.00
Faith
Calvinist

Lets compare eph 2:11-22 with rom 11:

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Now the olive tree in rom 11 17 is covenant Israel [ not national Isreal] and its branches, the ones not being broken off because of unbelief, are jewish people of the nation of israel, then when the gentiles are taken from their wild olive tree [ rom 11 17] and are grafted in with that Israel [ covenant Israel], then they become part of covenant Israel too..eph 2:

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Note, the saints, which would be those branches not broken off of covenant Israel, those broken off were not saints..

The True olive tree is covenant Israel of which the grafted in gentiles become part of.

For the gentiles [ the elect ones] are no longer strangers to covenant israels promises eph 2:12, 19 but are now recognized heirs of the same promises that covenant israel is heir to, with those branches that were not broke off by Gods Judgment for unbelief..

BTW those natural branches that were broken off were not part of Gods Israel of promise from Gods perspective, they were not His foreknown people see [ rom 11:2],

for they had been cut off from the Israel of promise, so we have pauls classic rom 9:6 " that they are not Israel which are of Israel "..

You see, some in covenant Israel had no root see [ matt 13: 20-21 and Jn 15: 1-7] and were not chosen in christ [ Israel] the True seed israel..

These jews were cut off from the olive tree [ covenant israel ] made spiritually blind [ see Jn 9 :39] and the chosen gentiles have been made to see [ jn 9:39] and grafted into covenant Israel, the Olive tree, so now are of covenant israel along with the natural Jews who were not cut off.. For christ is the True house of Israel heb 3:

6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Holding fast with confidence is not a condition of being of christ house, but a manifestation or effect of being of His House..​
 
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟531,725.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
So please do not side track with questions if you are not willing to address what is already posted with scripture.

You have posted a great many scriptures, and your conclusions about what these scriptures mean. But your conclusions about what these scriptures mean are not scripture.

In answer I and several others have posted scriptures that very expressly state exactly the opposite of what you conclude. These end the discussion. no conclusion about the meaning of any scripture can be correct if that conclusion contradicts the express statement of any other scripture.

Case closed.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Terral

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2004
1,635
49
Visit site
✟21,357.00
Faith
Christian
Hi Anthony:

You are not addressing the scriptures I have presented ...

The errant conclusions from your Opening Post are addressed in Post #11 :)wave:), which Anthony is ignoring. Everyone has the same right to be just as wrong as Anthony :)confused:) on this Topic ...

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.