Naming of Children

[eoe]

1. Do you think children should be given a Saint's name? Why or why not?

Sure. They will be baptised with a saints name yes? Why introduce confusion?

2. If given a Saint's name, should it (ideally) be their first name or a middle name?

Why not both! I think it should be the name that they are called by.

3. Do you prefer Old or New Testament bible names? How about post New Testament Saint names? [One thing that Vasya and I have noticed is that Protestants and Protestant converts tend to have a penchant for Old Testament names....]

Interesting. I would have thought that protestant converts would have a tendency to choose exotic sounding names as part of their convert goofiness (I am not excluded from any goofiness...)
Honestly I don't care so much about the name as for the person behind the name. I am really not a fan of the name John but I am close to taking it based on St. John Maximovich.
I suppose you have to ask - do you want a name that sounds cool or do you want to name them after someone? If you are just choosing a name then name them whatever you like and give them a middle name of a Saint. If you want to really name them in honor of a saint - well.. which Saint do you want to honor?

4. How important is it that a child have an icon of their patron saint in the home? [some Saints' icons are really hard to find, if not impossible] Slightly off topic on this one....

I do not have Icons for my children yet but eventually I will get them.
I suppose the question is - How important is it for you personally to have an Icon of YOUR patron? IF it is important for you to have yours then it will be important for them to have theirs.
You can always have an Icon written if you want to. Compared with having a baby the expense of a handwritten Icon is really small. It is also not something that you would have to do right off the bat either.

5. Do you think it appropriate for Western converts to choose ethnic Saint's names for their children, such as Photini/Svetlana, Olga, Boris, or Gleb?

Middle name territory here. Imagine them going to school or a job interview with a name like that. No problem being Borris or Olga if your friends all call you John or Jenny.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

What a fun topic! Vasya and I, after only a couple weeks of marriage, are already thinking of baby names.[lol] And being that there are several Ortho-babies on the way in TAW, I thought it would be fun to discuss naming of children.

Here are some questions:

1. Do you think children should be given a Saint's name? Why or why not?

2. If given a Saint's name, should it (ideally) be their first name or a middle name?

3. Do you prefer Old or New Testament bible names? How about post New Testament Saint names? [One thing that Vasya and I have noticed is that Protestants and Protestant converts tend to have a penchant for Old Testament names....]

4. How important is it that a child have an icon of their patron saint in the home? [some Saints' icons are really hard to find, if not impossible] Slightly off topic on this one....

5. Do you think it appropriate for Western converts to choose ethnic Saint's names for their children, such as Photini/Svetlana, Olga, Boris, or Gleb?

1. Do you think children should be given a Saint's name? Why or why not?

Yes, of course. Who can be more important to take the name of, than one of God's Saints?

2. If given a Saint's name, should it (ideally) be their first name or a middle name?

First! No reason to hide it.

3. Do you prefer Old or New Testament bible names? How about post New Testament Saint names? [One thing that Vasya and I have noticed is that Protestants and Protestant converts tend to have a penchant for Old Testament names....]

I prefer Old Testament names. But I might give my kid a newer Saint that happens to bear an OT name.

4. How important is it that a child have an icon of their patron saint in the home?

It's a great blessing to have one of them. But if you can't find one or afford one. What can you do?

5. Do you think it appropriate for Western converts to choose ethnic Saint's names for their children, such as Photini/Svetlana, Olga, Boris, or Gleb?

I think it's wrong not to want to honor a Saint because they have an ethinic sounding name. But I also think it's silly when people don't want to use the English translation of a name. For example naming your kid Andreas, and not Andrew, when you live in North America.

 

[Tsarina]

Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta, my hubby Andreas loves you for this post. He loves to talk about naming children and asks me the same questions constantly that you have asked in the beginning of this thread.

I would answer your questions, but they would be all similar to Andreas answers, (he posted above). Actually, there is one thing i have to disagree on, i don't like all the Old Testment names, to name a boy they're many great OT names, but not for girls. For a girl, the only OT name i would give would be "Solomonia" (from the book of Maccabes), otherwise the girl names would be picked out from 'after' the NT.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I have an additional question: Do any of you give thought or consideration to the meaning of names? I didn't used to give a lot of thought to this, but Vasya is a bit of an etymologist, and therefore likes to make sure names have acceptable meanings. Anyone else?

For example, "Douglas" means black water. Who wants to name their child after black water?

 

[Greg the byzantine]

I have an additional question: Do any of you give thought or consideration to the meaning of names? I didn't used to give a lot of thought to this, but Vasya is a bit of an etymologist, and therefore likes to make sure names have acceptable meanings. Anyone else?

For example, "Douglas" means black water. Who wants to name their child after black water?

I think you can get both a Christian name with very beautiful meanings, for example:

Theodore (Many wonderful saint theodores out there) means Gift of God

Sophia (saint who witnessed the martyrdom of her three daughters and died of grief) means wisdom

Gregory (plenty of saint gregorys) means vigilant

George (st george and the dragon) means farmer

Stephen (first martyr) means crown

 

[Melethiel]

I absolutely think kids should be given Christian names. As for ethnic names - that depends. It might help if the name could be Anglicised. For all of my siblings, their legal names are the Ukrainian version, but they usually go by the American equivalent. (Ie., Pavlo --> Paul)

 

[katherine2001]

I have an additional question: Do any of you give thought or consideration to the meaning of names? I didn't used to give a lot of thought to this, but Vasya is a bit of an etymologist, and therefore likes to make sure names have acceptable meanings. Anyone else?

For example, "Douglas" means black water. Who wants to name their child after black water?

I do give thought to the meaning of names. I have a wonderful book that has names from just about every culture you can think of, including from just about every Orthodox country, and if I'd ever had children, I would have definitely given more consideration to the meaning of the name than to any other consideration in choosing a name.

 

[katherine2001]

Personally, I would choose a Russian name and not anglicize it. Ekaterina sounds so much prettier than Katherine and I love the nicknames used for it. Another girl's name I absolutely love is Daria. I love it when I go to the Serbian church and the bishop happens to be visiting. He always calls me Ekaterina when he gives me Communion (he is a native Serb)--actually, the priest is also, but he uses Katherine when he gives me Communion.

 

[Angeldove97]

I was named after Saint Tatiana in the Russian Orthodox Church. I think its important that if you do name your child after a Saint, then you should bring them up knowing what their Saint did.

I ended up doing some research on mine and I found out in Russia Saint Tatiana is the patron Saint of students, which is ironic because I want to be a high school teacher.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I was named after Saint Tatiana in the Russian Orthodox Church. I think its important that if you do name your child after a Saint, then you should bring them up knowing what their Saint did.

I ended up doing some research on mine and I found out in Russia Saint Tatiana is the patron Saint of students, which is ironic because I want to be a high school teacher.

Which St. Tatiana are you named after? I only know of 2 Orthodox saints by that name. The one is the daughter of St. Nicholas (Tsar Nikolai II), and the other was a Roman martyr from way back (pre-schism), I believe. I was just wondering if you were named after a different Catholic saint.

PS: I really like the name Tatiana.

 

[irishseventysix]

What a fun topic! Vasya and I, after only a couple weeks of marriage, are already thinking of baby names.[lol] And being that there are several Ortho-babies on the way in TAW, I thought it would be fun to discuss naming of children.

Here are some questions:

1. Do you think children should be given a Saint's name? Why or why not?

2. If given a Saint's name, should it (ideally) be their first name or a middle name?

3. Do you prefer Old or New Testament bible names? How about post New Testament Saint names? [One thing that Vasya and I have noticed is that Protestants and Protestant converts tend to have a penchant for Old Testament names....]

4. How important is it that a child have an icon of their patron saint in the home? [some Saints' icons are really hard to find, if not impossible] Slightly off topic on this one....

5. Do you think it appropriate for Western converts to choose ethnic Saint's names for their children, such as Photini/Svetlana, Olga, Boris, or Gleb?

1. I absolutely believe it's good to name your child after a saint. I love mine. It'd be good, though, to know their stories beforehand so you can choose one that you find is not only appropriate in sound, but a saint that you can identify a little with...a saint that you would especially want watching over your child. I chose my saint (or rather he chose me...fun story) because I read about his life and I saw many attributes of his that I wanted to work on in my own life. They're an example to us of Christ. I chose Jude the Apostle because of his.

2. This depends. I know that my parish has been insistent on first names being saint names. But your options are pretty much endless to that degree. My friends are about to have a baby and they're naming their child Adela...short for Adeleide, a western saint. And my Godfather's daughter's name is Kirsten, the Scandanavian version of Christy, which is the feminine version of Christos.

3. Protestants do tend to like OT names, but I know plenty of Peters, Pauls, Jasons, Lukes, Matthews, Marks, Johns, Philips, Thomases, Timothys, etc. Choose a name of a saint that means something to you and your family.

4. My saint is known as the 'obscure' or 'forgotten' apostle. In fact, I basically guarantee that if you go to an Orthodox bookstore, you'll find an icon of each of the twelve Apostles except for Jude. It took my Godfather and a close friend of mine months to find one. But when they did, I was overjoyed. There's nothing like having your own saint's icon. Again, in my opinion, it's best to find a saint that you deem appropriate for your child. And though it can be very beneficial to have an icon of him or her, it's not as important, I think, as having their story.

5. I don't see a problem with Western converts choosing ethnic names. But check the motivation. Don't do it just to be distinctive. If the saint it right, and it fits with the last name, in my opinion, it's fine to have an ethnic name.

I am Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and British by descent. My last name is Butler, which sounds like a UK name. But I will definitely try to persuade my (God-willing) future wife to name our first two sons Apostoli and Symeon. I really want Rosemary for a daughter's name, too, but that's not exactly ethnic-sounding.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Personally, I would choose a Russian name and not anglicize it. Ekaterina sounds so much prettier than Katherine and I love the nicknames used for it. Another girl's name I absolutely love is Daria. I love it when I go to the Serbian church and the bishop happens to be visiting. He always calls me Ekaterina when he gives me Communion (he is a native Serb)--actually, the priest is also, but he uses Katherine when he gives me Communion.

I agree, emphatically.

Just like Silouan trumps Silvanus.

And a-nas-ta-SEE-ya sounds so much better than a-na-STAY-zha.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

4. My saint is known as the 'obscure' or 'forgotten' apostle. In fact, I basically guarantee that if you go to an Orthodox bookstore, you'll find an icon of each of the twelve Apostles except for Jude. It took my Godfather and a close friend of mine months to find one. But when they did, I was overjoyed. There's nothing like having your own saint's icon. Again, in my opinion, it's best to find a saint that you deem appropriate for your child. And though it can be very beneficial to have an icon of him or her, it's not as important, I think, as having their story.

Irish 76:

While I applauded the rest of your post for its insight and balanced approach, I have to take issue with one sentence. [picky, picky, I know...]

I think I would have to say that Orthodoxy does not show preference of story over image, nor image over story. Both are of equal importance. Thus Gospel (or, in this case, hagiography) should not be valued as more important than icon.

Both teach, just differently.

[And because sight recognition occurs in children before mental cognition does, I would be inclined to have the image on hand first.]

In Christ,
Vasya.

 

[Michael G]

Personally, I think the course of wisdom (in order to avoid possible problems in other jurisdictions, etc.) is to give your child the name of a well-established Orthodox Saint of whom icons are readily available.

I imagine this would avoid a lot of future problems.

On the other hand, I don't think all parents are keen on naming their children Nicholas or George, Barbara or Anastasia.

Who ever said that people were wise?

-Vasya.

Simply giving in to the the already established ethnic prejudices of the ethnic groups in the Orthodox Church is not the solution. I will do my best to make sure that my children have western saints names in either their first or second name. The solution is for iconographers to be writing icons of the lesser known saints to rectify the situation, and priests to recognize that their are saints who come from lands outside of the middle east and eastern Europe. At my own parish this is witnessed by the fact that there are icons of St. Moses the Ethiopian, St. Patrick of Ireland, and The Martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion (among others) in the narthex of the church. These icons basically say: "whatever your ethnicity, whether you be black, caucasian, middle eastern, far eastern, man, woman, child or adult, you are welcome in this church!" Unfortunately, I do not feel that way in some Orthodox parishes. The Orthodox church is not an ethnic ghetto!

 

[Tsarina]

I have an additional question: Do any of you give thought or consideration to the meaning of names? I didn't used to give a lot of thought to this, but Vasya is a bit of an etymologist, and therefore likes to make sure names have acceptable meanings. Anyone else?

For example, "Douglas" means black water. Who wants to name their child after black water?

Of course. It's always good to know the meaning of the name.

Infact, speaking of names, today my Hubby told me that Noah named his son "Ham". I bursted out in laughter, i thought he was joking, but he proved himself correct by flipping to the OT and showing me the name. Supringly, the family also has someone named "Put". What's with these names? Put, Ham, Job, Lot etc.... lols.

 

[choirfiend]

They werent so strange sounding thousands of years ago..no more, I suppose, than Joe, Ted, Al, or An, Xiou or Wu.

Names for me are three fold. Their meaning is very important to me. They have to be pleasing to hear, and pleasing to say/write. The aesthetic aspects of a name are definitely a consideration with me. A name such as Leonard, or something, that I don't take pleasuring in saying or hearing, is off the list.
Have you been checking out www.behindthename.com? They have the etemologies of first names of all sorts.

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

Simply giving in to the the already established ethnic prejudices of the ethnic groups in the Orthodox Church is not the solution. I will do my best to make sure that my children have western saints names in either their first or second name. The solution is for iconographers to be writing icons of the lesser known saints to rectify the situation, and priests to recognize that their are saints who come from lands outside of the middle east and eastern Europe. At my own parish this is witnessed by the fact that there are icons of St. Moses the Ethiopian, St. Patrick of Ireland, and The Martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion (among others) in the narthex of the church. These icons basically say: "whatever your ethnicity, whether you be black, caucasian, middle eastern, far eastern, man, woman, child or adult, you are welcome in this church!" Unfortunately, I do not feel that way in some Orthodox parishes. The Orthodox church is not an ethnic ghetto!

I wholeheartedly agree. And more to the point, so would my ethnically Romanian, heavily accented priest. There is no excuse for turning an Orthodox church in the west into an ethnic ghetto and western saints are every bit as Orthodox as eastern ones. I have icons for both of my children's patrons (one even came as a surprise gift via the Metropolitanate of Moldova) but they are both Romanian saints. I would also like one day to give them both icons of the western saints whose names they also bear as they, like I, are clearly always going to straddle the two cultures. Have you ever seen an icon of St. Guillermo de Penacorada or St. Sabina (the martyr in Rome)? I'd be interested in seeing, and possibly commissioning when my funds are up to it, both.

James

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Have you been checking out www.behindthename.com? They have the etemologies of first names of all sorts.

Yep! This is a great site to look up the meanings of names.

 

[Michael G]

I wholeheartedly agree. And more to the point, so would my ethnically Romanian, heavily accented priest. There is no excuse for turning an Orthodox church in the west into an ethnic ghetto and western saints are every bit as Orthodox as eastern ones. I have icons for both of my children's patrons (one even came as a surprise gift via the Metropolitanate of Moldova) but they are both Romanian saints. I would also like one day to give them both icons of the western saints whose names they also bear as they, like I, are clearly always going to straddle the two cultures. Have you ever seen an icon of St. Guillermo de Penacorada or St. Sabina (the martyr in Rome)? I'd be interested in seeing, and possibly commissioning when my funds are up to it, both.

James

I have yet to see icons of either saints, however, that does not mean they can't be written. I have designed icons of several lesser known saints, and have a friend who has written icons of many, many lesser known saints. If you ever want either of those written, pm me.

 

[irishseventysix]

Irish 76:

While I applauded the rest of your post for its insight and balanced approach, I have to take issue with one sentence. [picky, picky, I know...]

I think I would have to say that Orthodoxy does not show preference of story over image, nor image over story. Both are of equal importance. Thus Gospel (or, in this case, hagiography) should not be valued as more important than icon.

Both teach, just differently.

[And because sight recognition occurs in children before mental cognition does, I would be inclined to have the image on hand first.]

In Christ,
Vasya.

Hm...I agree. That's a good point, sir.

For me, though, when it came time to taking a name, it was important to me to know his story first. And even though not very much is known about him (especially for being an Apostle), what I do know was terribly endearing.

However, it's true that I love his icon just as much now. It's just a bummer that I had it put in the altar to be blessed, and it won't be out until 3 days after his feast day (June 19). Bad timing on my part.