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Name one doctrine that is not supported by Scripture.

GodsGrace101

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You're the one who doesn't want to divide the Trinity.
So how would YOU explain that each Person has its very own personality and has His very own tasks to fulfill?

God, the BEING THAT CREATED THE UNIVERSE, does not have a mother.

The Trinity is most difficult to explain and/or to understand.
I hope that you know that however you'd wish to explain the Trinity to someone it would be wrong.
Every explanation is a heresy in one way or another.

The triangle
The water in 3 forms
The human that is a father, brother, son
etc.
are all incorrect explanations.
 
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The Liturgist

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So you can see the Nicene Creed with convenient scripture references.


On Earth, and everywhere else, as believed by everyone else, including Nestorius.

Also, you have no deep knowledge of my beliefs and no authority over me as to how I understand the Trinity....It is my belief that I have stated NOTHING that does not agree with any Creed. I'm sorry you may believe so, but this does not concern me.

I don’t claim any authority over your beliefs. I do however feel you should consider clarifying your position, because right now it does not appear to me based on what you have said, that believe in the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ, and since you have on several occasions mentioned your belief that Jesus Christ is not the second person of the Trinity, which also seems to contradict John 1:1-18, I think it would be helpful if you did clarify that.
 
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The Liturgist

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The most common explanation I see is that our Lord is eternally begotten of the Father, outside of time, just as the Spirit eternally proceeds from Him. This makes sense, because John 1:2 states that by Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son and Word of God, all things were made; this obviously includes time.
 
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The Liturgist

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You really should read my posts more carefully.

Rather than posting that, which is unhelpful, why don’t you clarify your triadological perspective. I mean, there’s no need for us to get worked up over this. If you say you believe the Nicene Creed I believe you. I am just confused by your repeated statements that the Second Person of the Trinity is not Jesus Christ.
 
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The Liturgist

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You're the one who doesn't want to divide the Trinity.
So how would YOU explain that each Person has its very own personality and has His very own tasks to fulfill?

The three persons are distinct but not divided, because of their consubstantiality (homoousios), translated in the creed as “of one essence with the Father.” If we allow division into the Trinity, we fall into tritheism.

God, the BEING THAT CREATED THE UNIVERSE, does not have a mother.

Right, that’s what Nestorius said, initially. Later he claimed he agreed with the Council of Chalcedon, which did uphold the doctrine of the Theotokos, so that makes him unreliable in that respect.

However insofar as Christ was born and Christ is as the creed says, very God of very God, most Christians who study triadology reject Nestorianism and believe that Jesus Christ has a mother, because of the principle of communicatio idiomatum.


I disagree insofar Christian church agree with the explanation in the Nicene Creed. The only complex issue is terminology related to Christology and the Incarnation. Also, every explanation of the Trinity is not heresy, even if it is inadequete; heresy specifically means a belief agreed upon by the Christian church as false. And note I have not accused you of heresy, or anything else.

Furthermore, I do agree with you insofar that God in his divine essence, as argued by St. Basil the Great, in the 4th century, is incomprehensible, and we can only comprehend His divine energies.

I hope that clears that up.
 
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GodsGrace101

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It's not something easily explained.
Jesus is The Son, the 2nd person, incarnated.
When Jesus was on earth, the 2nd Person was still with Father and did not leave His "post".
You understand this as omnipresence which is fine.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Of course it includes time.
Can't get beyond the Big Bang....for this very reason.

But you didn't answer what begotten means.
In the English language its most common meaning is BORN. Do you believe the 2nd Person was born?
Which would mean He didn't always exist...
 
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GodsGrace101

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Jesus is God incarnate.
But Jesus did not always exist as JESUS, did He?
He was born 2,000 years ago.
He is Immanuel,,,God with us.
The 2nd Person always existed.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Sure.
Sometimes spiritual matters are most difficult to understand or to explain. I believe we agree but maybe in or minds we might comprehend in some different way.

I in no way meant that you were stating that I was saying something heretical. Just to undetstand, if you explain the Trinity using the water idea, it's sabellianism because it DOES divide the Persons...as you rightly object to.
However , some way must be found when teaching kids, so we do our best. This is all I meant by my comment on heresies.
 
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Thatgirloncfforums

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The cannon of scripture.
This is true. I like this one. Typically because Enoch is one of my favorite books, but my Church doesn't accept it, but the Egyptians do. I also like Sirach. It has some gorgeous Psalms and a prophesy of Christ.
 
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Thatgirloncfforums

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which is why most protestants misinterpret scripture. Sola Scriptura error creator at it's best
I would hope that most Protestants know that neither English translations nor the English language is authoritative (Divinely inspired)? But, who am I to say? I'm learning a lot about Protestants that I didn't know since being on CF.
 
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I would hope that most Protestants know that neither English translations nor the English language is authoritative (Divinely inspired)? But, who am I to say? I'm learning a lot about Protestants that I didn't know since being on CF.

I enjoy Luther's translation which, of course, was in German, not English.
 
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The Liturgist

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It's not something easily explained.
Jesus is The Son, the 2nd person, incarnated.
When Jesus was on earth, the 2nd Person was still with Father and did not leave His "post".
You understand this as omnipresence which is fine.

Ok, now I understand you. That’s Nestorian, but its Nicene, so I can’t object, although I do suggest you look into the rationale for the councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon rejecting the view Nestorius, because I do believe they offers a better explanation for everything. The Assyrians are basically Chalcedonian but prefer to call our Lord the Mother of Christ.
 
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The Liturgist

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This is true. I like this one. Typically because Enoch is one of my favorite books, but my Church doesn't accept it, but the Egyptians do. I also like Sirach. It has some gorgeous Psalms and a prophesy of Christ.

The Ethiopians accept it, and they were until the 20th century an autonomous church under the Coptic Pope, but the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, that is to say, the Egyptian part worshipping using the Coptic Rite liturgy, does not.
 
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GodsGrace101

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which is why most protestants misinterpret scripture. Sola Scriptura error creator at it's best
I agree that Protestantism has its problems.
Sola Scriptura, as I understand it, just means that only scripture is used as the sole authority as to doctrine.

Problem is...too many denominations...too many differing ideas.
Yes, this is problematic.

If we want to search deeper, you and I would have to agree that even within Catholicism there is an outer veneer of agreement on all doctrine, but going deeper we find that not all priests agree on all issues.
I don't use the word theologian because I don't believe a Catholic theologian CAN disagree with a doctrine, at least openly.
 
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