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"You people" - who is that?
You people love to say what Christianity has always taught don't you? What is the earliest SPECIFIC mention of infant baptism? Don't give me the household garbage either, that is ambiguous at best. I want a specific example with a specific date attached to it, so we can all see just how long it has "always been taught".
The thread is a PRIME example of the doctrinal variations amongst Protestant Denom's...one of the the main reasons I left that entire realm for Rome.
I wish I could bottle this thread and show it to all the people that believe there is any type of unity amongst Protestants...thanks everybody!!
You sound that you used to believe what I believe.Here are Five I used to believe:
Spiritual ability (though I held to original sin and total depravity, without the consequence of total inability)
Conditional Election
Universal Atonement
Resistible Grace
Self-Perseverance
It is debatable in some circles as to whether or not these are heretical, historically they were officially rejected and countered by the Synod of Dordt 1618-19, and before that by many others, though perhaps not everyone one of them by a single person. Personally, I consider them erroneous, deformed and not sound, but grudgingly tolerable within the broader scope of Christianity. In other words, there is room for differing views within Christianity, and therefore room enough for error, but only to a certain extent, which God knows. It is not like knowledge and profession of correct views actually saves or has the power to save a person. We tend to have an assumption that those truly saved have that true knowledge, when in truth, here on earth, we Christians are works in progress. God have mercy!
I am still waiting on that hard archaeological evidence that "proves" Christian mysticism is all subjective feelings and heresy. Where is it?
That would be in the Acts of the Apostles chapter two where saint Peter, the first pope, says, "Turn back to God! Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will be given the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and your children. It is for everyone our Lord God will choose, no matter where they live." (Acts 2:38-39) - One hopes that the 'garbage' you do not want to see is not a reference to sacred scripture. In any case, the scripture is about God's promise that is put into effect through repentance and baptism for parents and their children. Truly if the promise is for both the parent and the child then it is effected in the same manner for both, that is, through baptism. And since baptism is a work of God which cleanses one from sins and incorporates one into the body of the Lord, Jesus Christ, then what counts is God's intention in the act of baptism. It is a little bit disturbing to see your post referring to household baptism as 'garbage' but perhaps it is something else that you intend to call garbage - maybe the doctrine which recognises baptism as an act of God rather than a human act of testimony about having come to personal belief in Jesus Christ and repentance for one's sins? The specific date would be about 33 AD, on the day of Pentecost.
You people...LOL!!!
[FONT=arial, helvetica, geneva, sans-serif]Irenaeus[/FONT]
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).
Early Teachings on Infant Baptism | Catholic Answers
Not a doctrine per se, but an 'underpinning' belief that sin was entirely a "moral/ethical category" (and thus related to will, cognizance, etc.).
Children and infants are two different things, rendering your quote null and void as far as establishing a SPECIFIC mention of infant baptism. Also, there are other mentions of households in say John chapter 4 that implicitly exclude infants, so yeah the household argument is garbage. Good day.
Children and infants are two different things, rendering your quote null and void as far as establishing a SPECIFIC mention of infant baptism. Also, there are other mentions of households in say John chapter 4 that implicitly exclude infants, so yeah the household argument is garbage. Good day.That would be in the Acts of the Apostles chapter two where saint Peter, the first pope, says, "Turn back to God! Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will be given the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and your children. It is for everyone our Lord God will choose, no matter where they live." (Acts 2:38-39) - One hopes that the 'garbage' you do not want to see is not a reference to sacred scripture. In any case, the scripture is about God's promise that is put into effect through repentance and baptism for parents and their children. Truly if the promise is for both the parent and the child then it is effected in the same manner for both, that is, through baptism. And since baptism is a work of God which cleanses one from sins and incorporates one into the body of the Lord, Jesus Christ, then what counts is God's intention in the act of baptism.... What is the earliest SPECIFIC mention of infant baptism?It is a little bit disturbing to see your post referring to household baptism as 'garbage' but perhaps it is something else that you intend to call garbage - maybe the doctrine which recognises baptism as an act of God rather than a human act of testimony about having come to personal belief in Jesus Christ and repentance for one's sins?Don't give me the household garbage eitherThe specific date would be about 33 AD, on the day of Pentecost., that is ambiguous at best. I want a specific example with a specific date attached to it, so we can all see just how long it has "always been taught".
Wikipedia said:Biologically, a child (plural: children) is a human between the stages of birth and puberty. The legal definition of child generally refers to a minor, otherwise known as a person younger than the age of majority.
Child may also describe a relationship with a parent (such as sons and daughters of any age) or, metaphorically, an authority figure, or signify group membership in a clan, tribe, or religion; it can also signify being strongly affected by a specific time, place, or circumstance, as in "a child of nature" or "a child of the Sixties"
MoreCoffee said:Every infant is also a child. An infant is a child. The two words have considerable overlap in meaning. Your statement is both inaccurate and undocumented. People cannot make up definitions for words just to bolster an argument and expect that it will not be noticed.
Every infant is a child, just as every person is a child no matter their age. I'm 28 yet I am still my parents child. My 90 year old grandmother is still her parents child and together with her siblings are their children.
Only one ?Mine would be that jesus is micheal the archangel and that hell doesnt exist.
Name one that you have thought was biblical but found out it was heretical?
That would be in the Acts of the Apostles chapter two where saint Peter, the first pope, says, "Turn back to God! Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will be given the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and your children. It is for everyone our Lord God will choose, no matter where they live." (Acts 2:38-39) - One hopes that the 'garbage' you do not want to see is not a reference to sacred scripture. In any case, the scripture is about God's promise that is put into effect through repentance and baptism for parents and their children. Truly if the promise is for both the parent and the child then it is effected in the same manner for both, that is, through baptism. And since baptism is a work of God which cleanses one from sins and incorporates one into the body of the Lord, Jesus Christ, then what counts is God's intention in the act of baptism.
It is a little bit disturbing to see your post referring to household baptism as 'garbage' but perhaps it is something else that you intend to call garbage - maybe the doctrine which recognises baptism as an act of God rather than a human act of testimony about having come to personal belief in Jesus Christ and repentance for one's sins?
The specific date would be about 33 AD, on the day of Pentecost.
People cannot make up definitions for words just to bolster an argument and expect that it will not be noticed.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Biologically, a child (plural: children) is a human between the stages of birth and puberty. The legal definition of child generally refers to a minor, otherwise known as a person younger than the age of majority.
Child may also describe a relationship with a parent (such as sons and daughters of any age) or, metaphorically, an authority figure, or signify group membership in a clan, tribe, or religion; it can also signify being strongly affected by a specific time, place, or circumstance, as in "a child of nature" or "a child of the Sixties"
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