Nailed to the cross?

[k4c]

Many people have been taught to believe that the Ten Commandments were nailed to the cross so we no longer have to abide by them. But is this what God is saying? Was it God's plan to do away with His commandments so He could have a people to call His own? Let's see what the Scriptures say.

All throughout the New Testamen we find over and over again how Jesus died to pay our sin debt. We find verse upon verse that say Jesus died to take away the sins of the world.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

There is not one verse that says Jesus died to take away God's Law. If that were true that would mean that since Jesus died to take away sin then the Law must be sin. Is this what the Bible says?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.''

Do you see the confusion Satan brings into God's plan when we listen to man over God?

God wants to be our God and we His people. He wants to write His Law in our hearts and minds, not do away with them. Writing His Law in our hearts and mind is the foundation of New Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:33 "But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Excellent thread...

As the quoted verse from Romans says, we are judged by the Law and that judgement is sure death as no one can perfectly keep the Law, but Jesus saves us from the judgement through His Righteousness and atoning blood.

 

[Cribstyl]

Normally people would try to refute the actual texts that appear to say that "the law was nailed to the cross." You seem to feel that showing texts that claims "Jesus died to take away sins of the world" makes your case.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
The big question should be what are the ordinances against us?
Why not explain the scriptures about "nailing to the cross"?
How could Gentiles be only guilty of breaking ceromonials ordinances? ;

Eph 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:Why does Paul explain that the commandments were contained in the ordinaces?


The confusion comes when people try to "ignor" or "explain away" these scriptures;
Gal 3:19¶Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

This scripture explains; It was added to the covenant with Abraham until Jesus came to die, it was given by angels to Moses.
Gal 3:19-25 refutes your commentary.



Hbr 8:13In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Commentary loves to "explain away" that the covenant is not the law but it's clear to many that Israel broke the covenant by primarily by having other Gods.
Heb 8:7-13 refutes your commentary.


Have you considered all the scriptures say...We're not under the law?

 

[Cribstyl]

Excellent thread...

As the quoted verse from Romans says, we are judged by the Law and that judgement is sure death as no one can perfectly keep the Law, but Jesus saves us from the judgement through His Righteousness and atoning blood.

Please post the text that says we're judged by the law?
Please post the text that says we're judged by the law?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Please post the text that says we're judged by the law?
Please post the text that says we're judged by the law?

And if I do will you acknowledge it??

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Normally people would try to refute the actual texts that appear to say that "the law was nailed to the cross." You seem to feel that showing texts that claims "Jesus died to take away sins of the world" makes your case.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
The big question should be what are the ordinances against us?
Why not explain the scriptures about "nailing to the cross"?
How could Gentiles be only guilty of breaking ceromonials ordinances? ;

Eph 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:Why does Paul explain that the commandments were contained in the ordinaces?


The confusion comes when people try to "ignor" or "explain away" these scriptures;
Gal 3:19¶Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

This scripture explains; It was added to the covenant with Abraham until Jesus came to die, it was given by angels to Moses.
Gal 3:19-25 refutes your commentary.



Hbr 8:13In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Commentary loves to "explain away" that the covenant is not the law but it's clear to many that Israel broke the covenant by primarily by having other Gods.
Heb 8:7-13 refutes your commentary.


Have you considered all the scriptures say...We're not under the law?

Have you noticed that alot of your scriptural proof is refering to ordinances?
It a simple matter understand the difference between the Mosaic law (ordinances) and the Law written on stone, the decalogue.

You still haven't been able to expain why their was a need of two sets of laws if they all had the same significance.... you can't because they were seperate and distinct from each other.

 

[Cribstyl]

And if I do will you acknowledge it??

You said.... "As the quoted verse from Romans says, we are judged by the Law and that judgement is sure death as no one can perfectly keep the Law, but Jesus saves us from the judgement through His Righteousness and atoning blood."

I asked you twice to please post the text that gives such an understanding........
It appears to me, you implied that a text from Romans that K4c posted said "we're judged by the law."

Romans 7:7 only implies that the law exists.
This does not mean or imply that Christains are under the law.

The fact is the context of that text is teaching.........we're dead to the law by the body of Christ,.."we're delivered from the law wherein we were held."
It seem clear to me that "commentary" often have an agenda to play word games.

 

[Cribstyl]

Have you noticed that alot of your scriptural proof is refering to ordinances?
It a simple matter understand the difference between the Mosaic law (ordinances) and the Law written on stone, the decalogue.

You still haven't been able to expain why their was a need of two sets of laws if they all had the same significance.... you can't because they were seperate and distinct from each other.

Scriptures show that the ten commandment are in the law of Moses.

As usual your arguments are against the scriptures.

 

[k4c]

You said.... "As the quoted verse from Romans says, we are judged by the Law and that judgement is sure death as no one can perfectly keep the Law, but Jesus saves us from the judgement through His Righteousness and atoning blood."

I asked you twice to please post the text that gives such an understanding........
It appears to me, you implied that a text from Romans that K4c posted said "we're judged by the law."

Romans 7:7 only implies that the law exists.
This does not mean or imply that Christains are under the law.

The fact is the context of that text is teaching.........we're dead to the law by the body of Christ,.."we're delivered from the law wherein we were held."
It seem clear to me that "commentary" often have an agenda to play word games.

In Christ we are dead to the Law as it relates to the curse.

Galatians 3:13 Christ ransomed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who hangs on a tree,"

And what is the curse that comes from breaking the Law?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It does not say that God ransomed us from the Law as it relates to obedience.

The Law's curse is because of our sin, not the Law itself.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!

Romans 7:12-13 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. !

The Law now has no power over us because Jesus takes our sin away but the Law itself, as it relates to obedience, still stands.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Remember, the grace of God is the fact that God doesn't punish those who are in Christ, but this does not mean that we can now live in sin.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

I know I'm wasting my time sharing this with you because I've been round and round with you on this many times before.

 

[Cribstyl]

In Christ we are dead to the Law as it relates to the curse.

Galatians 3:13 Christ ransomed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who hangs on a tree,"

And what is the curse that comes from breaking the Law?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It does not say that God ransomed us from the Law as it relates to obedience.

The Law's curse is because of our sin, not the Law itself.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!

Romans 7:12-13 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. !

The Law now has no power over us because Jesus takes our sin away but the Law itself, as it relates to obedience, still stands.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Remember, the grace of God is the fact that God doesn't punish those who are in Christ, but this does not mean that we can now live in sin.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

I know I'm wasting my time sharing this with you because I've been round and round with you on this many times before.

According to the context of Gal3:13, the curse of the law is having to abide by every commandment forever RSV - Gal 3:10 -For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

According to the context, the curse is; "if you dont keep every commandment in the law you will die."

Clearly, your commentary is highjacking that scripture for personal use.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

According to the context of Gal3:13, the curse of the law is having to abide by every commandment forever RSV - Gal 3:10 -For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

According to the context, the curse is; "if you dont keep every commandment in the law you will die."

Clearly, your commentary is highjacking that scripture for personal use.

You're right Crib....

No sense arguing against such superior wisdom.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

According to the context of Gal3:13, the curse of the law is having to abide by every commandment forever RSV - Gal 3:10 -For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

According to the context, the curse is; "if you dont keep every commandment in the law you will die."

Clearly, your commentary is highjacking that scripture for personal use.

. . . A sobering thought for any of us who have ever thought we could maintain our salvation by keeping the law.

BFA

 

[tall73]

Most likely the "handwriting" is a reference to a statement of debt, representing our sins. This is in line with the immediate context of the passage.


COL 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.


having canceled the written code is here parallel to forgave us all our sins. Jesus was taking away our legal bond of debt, the sin we owed.



Strongs references of the term handwriting of ordinances...


χειρόγραφον
cheirographon
khi-rog'-raf-on
Neuter of a compound of G5495 and G1125; something hand written (“chirograph&#8221, that is, a manuscript (specifically a legal document or bond (figuratively)): - handwriting.

Literally it is simply a combination of the word hand, cheir, and the verb write...grapho.

It at times meant a handwritten form, legal document of bond.


and the second word...


G1378
δόγμα
dogma
dog'-mah
From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.



Thayers defines dogma as decree, statute, ordinance.

So it is a legal form, perhaps of bond.


The New Jerusalem Bible renders it


He has wiped out the record of our debt to the law


NASB,


having canceled out (AH)the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us

Amplified:

4Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands


ESV:

"by canceling the record of debt "



ASV

having blotted out the bond written in ordinances

HCSB

4 He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations


The following also have similar readings, but tend to be looser translations:

NLT

14He canceled the record that contained the charges against us

CEV

14God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses

The commentators in the NIV Study Bible made a similar assessment in the the meaning of the word...a certificate of debt, but still applied it to the mosaic code.

14. Written code. A business term, meaning a certificate of indebtedness in the debtor's handwritting. Paul uses it as a designation for the mosaic law, with all its regulations, under which everyone is a debtor to God.


The text most likely here is referring to Jesus paying our bond of debt, our sin. So I don't think it is talking about nailing the law to the cross.

 

[k4c]

Most likely the "handwriting" is a reference to a statement of debt, representing our sins. This is in line with the immediate context of the passage.

COL 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

having canceled the written code is here parallel to forgave us all our sins. Jesus was taking away our legal bond of debt, the sin we owed.

Strongs references of the term handwriting of ordinances...

χειρόγραφον
cheirographon
khi-rog'-raf-on
Neuter of a compound of G5495 and G1125; something hand written (“chirograph&#8221, that is, a manuscript (specifically a legal document or bond (figuratively)): - handwriting.

Literally it is simply a combination of the word hand, cheir, and the verb write...grapho.

It at times meant a handwritten form, legal document of bond.

and the second word...

G1378
δόγμα
dogma
dog'-mah
From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

Thayers defines dogma as decree, statute, ordinance.

So it is a legal form, perhaps of bond.

The New Jerusalem Bible renders it

He has wiped out the record of our debt to the law

NASB,
having canceled out (AH)the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us

Amplified:
4Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands

ESV:
"by canceling the record of debt "

ASV
having blotted out the bond written in ordinances

HCSB
4 He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations

The following also have similar readings, but tend to be looser translations:

NLT
14He canceled the record that contained the charges against us

CEV
14God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses

The commentators in the NIV Study Bible made a similar assessment in the the meaning of the word...a certificate of debt, but still applied it to the mosaic code.

14. Written code. A business term, meaning a certificate of indebtedness in the debtor's handwritting. Paul uses it as a designation for the mosaic law, with all its regulations, under which everyone is a debtor to God.


The text most likely here is referring to Jesus paying our bond of debt, our sin. So I don't think it is talking about nailing the law to the cross.

Amen...

God's Law is good, holy and righteous. There is no need to nail it to the cross but there is a huge need to nail sin to the cross.

The problem has never been with God's Law. The problem has always been our sin. The Law points out sin so we can make the changes in our lives but is that which is good the problem? Is that which is good the cause of my death? No way. Sin is the cause of my death. The Law points sin out so it can help us, not hurt us.

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

God's Law is like the doctor who diagnosises the cancer so the surgery can be peformed to save the patient. We don't get rid of the doctor nor do we make void the diagnosis, but rather, we submit and put our trust in the doctor and allow him to cut us open and fix us.

 

[Cribstyl]

Amen...

God's Law is good, holy and righteous. There is no need to nail it to the cross but there is a huge need to nail sin to the cross.

The problem has never been with God's Law. The problem has always been our sin. The Law points out sin so we can make the changes in our lives but is that which is good the problem? Is that which is good the cause of my death? No way. Sin is the cause of my death. The Law points sin out so it can help us, not hurt us.

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

God's Law is like the doctor who diagnosises the cancer so the surgery can be peformed to save the patient. We don't get rid of the doctor nor do we make void the diagnosis, but rather, we submit and put our trust in the doctor and allow him to cut us open and fix us.

In Rom 7:13 (Rom 7:7-25) Paul is explaining the internal struggles of the "carnal minded," and that it's always in bondage to the law because it cannot keep it. The text explains that the law is a good thing that should lead to life, but always results in death.
Paul's conclussion on the stuggles of "carnal mind and the law," is explained in Romans chapter 8.

Your commentary tends to walk away from the whole truth.....


Those who are born again are a new creation in the spirit. They dont become infants again.

They are set free from the law. Why? Because Jesus met the requirement of the law for us. Death.
Rom 8:1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life [fn1] in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Rom 8:3For what the Law could not do, [fn2] weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [fn3] sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Rom 8:8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is [fn4] alive because of righteousness.

I can say the same thing as you .... I've been round and round with you on this many times before.

 

[k4c]

In Rom 7:13 (Rom 7:7-25) Paul is explaining the internal struggles of the "carnal minded," and that it's always in bondage to the law because it cannot keep it. The text explains that the law is a good thing that should lead to life, but always results in death.
Paul's conclussion is on the stuggles of "carnal mind and the law" is explained in Romans chapter 8. Your commentary tends to walk away from the whole truth..... Those who are born again are a new creation in the spirit.
They are set free from the law. Why? Because Jesus met the requirement of the law for us. Death.
Rom 8:1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life [fn1] in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Rom 8:3For what the Law could not do, [fn2] weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [fn3] sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Rom 8:8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is [fn4] alive because of righteousness.

I can say the same thing as you .... I've been round and round with you on this many times before.

So you believe that if I'm a married person living in adultery with another woman and the Law points out the fact that I'm a transgressor who stands condemned and in need of a Savior I can continue to live in adultery once I receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior? Hmmm, that's cool!!!

What you're telling me is that if I'm a thief who has been shown the light and I turn to Jesus and become born again I can continue to steal because I am not under the Law? All the Law does is point out my sin and my need for Jesus and it has no other use after that?

If your doctor tells you that you have cancer and are in need of surgery would you say all you need is the diagnosis from the doctor and not the surgery. Would you say that even if you got the surgery there would be no need for future check ups or CAT Scans?

The Law points out sin so Jesus can do the surgery. The Law continues to point out sin the remainder of our whole lives so that those who are coming to God and those who love God can make the daily changes that are need to be a godly people. Take away that Law and righteousness and holiness becomes open for interpretation and we see what that looks like in the religious world today.

Without the Law there will be lawlessness and what does the word say about lawlessness in the last days.

Mathew 24:11-13 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 7:23 "And then Jesus will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Matthew 13:41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Romans 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

You will either practice lawlessness or righteousness so if we're preaching no Law the only outcome is lawlessness.

Wake up people! The time is very near...

 

[zeker33:9]

The Law points out sin so Jesus can do the surgery.

Agreed.....so Jesus can do the surgery not you.

 

[k4c]

Agreed.....so Jesus can do the surgery not you.

Where in the world did you get me from?

 

[David Conklin]

>>The Law points out sin so Jesus can do the surgery. >Agreed.....so Jesus can do the surgery not you.

As it should be.

 

[zeker33:9]

Where in the world did you get me from?

Quite a quandary huh? From one perspective I could be calling plank eye on you (Matthew 7:3-5). On the other hand I could be saying that we allow Jesus to perform the surgery and that's all we can do. We can't perform surgery ourselves.