mythology, etc.

[hiz_child]

Well, ever since I saw the Lotr movies I've developed a keen interest in learning the Sindarin elf language. But here is my problem. The more I delve into it the more I see it "connected"(not sure about that word) to new age, wiccan, wizards, spells, ect. Do you think it is wrong of me to study this language? Will it open me up to demonic oppression? I am not involved in those kind of things and never want to be. But I find the language very beautiful.

 

[Arikereba]

Tolkien was Catholic and Lord of the Rings is a Catholic work.
As a linguistics student I really admire the work he put into world-building and language-building. I don't believe that there is anything occult or new-age about the languages he created.

I've heard that Elvish was inspired by Finnish and Welsh, which Tolkien thought of as some of the most beautiful languages (I'd have to agree!) If you're really concerned about it, you could try learning one of them, and gain the additional benefit of being able to talk to more people. I think real languages are more fun than created ones. But I don't think you'd be wrong either way.

 

[msjones21]

Only you will be able to determine whether or not you will be tempted to dabble in the areas of Wicca or Paganism as the direct result of studying Elvish. In general, I don't see anything particularly wrong with it. I, myself, love reading the Harry Potter series and I know many Christians who disapprove, but I know I'm not going to turn in my Bible for a wand and spellbook. Just pray for God's hedge of protection because it is giving Satan a foothold.

 

[Lyle]

Maybe you need o dig alittle deeper into the story itself, read The Silmalarion (sp?) and Unfinished Tales, and you'll see that it isn't anything like Wicca at all.
The teaches of Wicca aren't shown in the books. The Wizards aren't actually wizards at all, but rather the Istari, which are supernatral beings sent to show the light to the world......

The elvish language is "Quenya," the only language the Tolkien finished. If you know Latin, you'll have no problem picking it up, because the two are very much the same. But I could go on for pages about the true story in and out of Lord of the Rings....

Tolkien was Catholic and Lord of the Rings is a Catholic work.

he was actually a devout Christian, with some Chatholic beliefs...

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

he was actually a devout Christian, with some Chatholic beliefs...

He was a devoutly Catholic Christian. He was greatly pained that C S Lewis became an Anglican on his conversion, rather than a Catholic.

Tolkien also resented the move to the vernacular for the Mass - he took the view that if he could take the trouble to understand the Latin so should everyone else. He always attended the Roman Catholic church and there's nothing to suggest that his beliefs were anything other than straight down the line Vatican I Catholicism.

Oh - and there's nothing remotely occult about elvish. Sindarin is based on the sounds of Welsh, and Quenya on the sounds of Finnish, although the vocabulary is derived from neither, being based on proto-elvish roots. Tolkien was fascinated by linguistic evolution, and made his languages correspond to the way real languages evolve. Hence, for example, a proto-elvish root *Wal- gives Q. Vala and S. Bala, Q. Valarauka, S. Balrog and so on.

Some roots are actually puns - the root Nen- means water - there is a river Nene in England. And somehow I suspect the name "Brandywine" actually predates the elvish "Baranduin" in terms of invention.

But I digress.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

He studied Anglo-Saxon, so I'm sure his Elvish is based on the knowledge he had of language.
Paganism needs language also. So I would approach it from that standpoint.

 

[Susan]

Well, ever since I saw the Lotr movies I've developed a keen interest in learning the Sindarin elf language. But here is my problem. The more I delve into it the more I see it "connected"(not sure about that word) to new age, wiccan, wizards, spells, ect. Do you think it is wrong of me to study this language? Will it open me up to demonic oppression? I am not involved in those kind of things and never want to be. But I find the language very beautiful.

Don't worry!

There are no serious connections to New Age or Wicca in Tolkien's materials (neither belief system even existed as such at the time LOTR and such were written, so it's even more of a stretch to claim their presence than to claim direct Christian allegory, which is an equally errant claim).

Also, it is simply a fictional language for a fictional environment. There's no more spiritual danger in learning it than in learning Pig Latin or any other "unreal" language.

In short, if you do not feel that it is wrong and you do not want to be involved with demons-then this language is just a beautiful fictional language, and you will not acquire demons or be oppressed by them.

 

[Lyle]

He studied Anglo-Saxon, so I'm sure his Elvish is based on the knowledge he had of language.
Paganism needs language also. So I would approach it from that standpoint.

Lord of the Rings has strong roots in the Anglo-Saxon culture. Best seen through his literature used in the books... The Anglo-Saxons even reffered to the place they lived in as Middle-Earth..... And there is no connection between it and wicca

Karl -You know more then I

 

[Lee]

Now I am not against Lord of the Ring, but there are things that I believe it is wrong in it. I believe that it is wrong the way the author and even the movie producers protrait elfs and the other races of creatures. For me, the bible does not teach about other races other than humans. Meaning to me that elves are originally demonic figures if they are real. And I hear stories of creatures like elves tormenting people around the world. Even my own Asianic people experience physical, mental, and spiritual bondage with creatures looking like elves. (In third world countries, there are strong demonic holds.)

I can only say to you that coming from a background which is influenced in the occult world, I had this desire to seek the supernatural world. And I was not seeking God. I was desiring powers of the spirits. I learned that it was through my cultural background that drew my interest. Also I believed that demons work in ways to draw me into getting interest in the dark world. It was for awhile that I dropped that desire to follow Jesus Christ. And my desire for all the occultic things were gone. So I concluded that partially there was demonic influences in drawing me to dark powers.

As for LOTR, I do not like the fact that it is fantasy. Sometimes, Satan can use fantasy to get people to believe in something else not written in the Bible, or cause people to be astray. Fantasy is not reality. And such like elves. If you ever meet an elf, you may take it the first ignitive to believe that it must be friendly because all the movies you see of elves are friendly. (And you know that magic works together with elves.) So I try to keep myself intact with the reality of this spiritual world. I do not want to get tricked by Satan and his dominons.

I say to you that if you are questioning this now, maybe you can feel that the Holy Spirit is telling you of the demonic powers behind the unseen scenes. I hope that you are more aware of what you will be getting into. If you feel spiritually that there are demonic influences in this, quickly move away and pray. Join with Christ to fight this.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

Now I am not against Lord of the Ring, but there are things that I believe it is wrong in it. I believe that it is wrong the way the author and even the movie producers protrait elfs and the other races of creatures. For me, the bible does not teach about other races other than humans.

That's why LOTR is a Fantasy. A "Fairy tale" as Tolkien called it. It makes no claims on reality and uses the fantastic (like the Elves) as a medium to reflect certain truths.

Meaning to me that elves are originally demonic figures if they are real. And I hear stories of creatures like elves tormenting people around the world. Even my own Asianic people experience physical, mental, and spiritual bondage with creatures looking like elves. (In third world countries, there are strong demonic holds.)

I'm not sure how this connects with LOTR.... a lot of his races were taken from old european folklore, that doesn't make them demonic.

As for LOTR, I do not like the fact that it is fantasy. Sometimes, Satan can use fantasy to get people to believe in something else not written in the Bible, or cause people to be astray.

Satan uses everything. Should I stop being a photographer because Satan uses photos in the form of porn? Tolkien was very clear that he was trying to express Christian truth in LOTR (though not in a straight allegorical sense). Why is fantasy in general bad like you seem to imply?

Fantasy is not reality.

Nor does it claim to be. But Tolkien (and Lewis) were keenly interested in Fantasy's ability to say things about reality, specifically Christian reality. Thus, things like Elves DO represent spiritual issues and powers, but not in the sense you mean.... heck, Gandalf and Saruman are effectively Angels, albeit working for different sides....

And such like elves. If you ever meet an elf, you may take it the first ignitive to believe that it must be friendly because all the movies you see of elves are friendly. (And you know that magic works together with elves.) So I try to keep myself intact with the reality of this spiritual world. I do not want to get tricked by Satan and his dominons.

If I ever meet an Elf, I'll probably first check to see if the mushrooms on that pizza I had for lunch were kosher....

For heaven's sake, dig deeper.... don't just write it off because "it has elves and magic and that means demons", or automatically assume unfamiliar = bad.

I say to you that if you are questioning this now, maybe you can feel that the Holy Spirit is telling you of the demonic powers behind the unseen scenes. I hope that you are more aware of what you will be getting into. If you feel spiritually that there are demonic influences in this, quickly move away and pray. Join with Christ to fight this.

I resent the implication that Christ is "fighting this" (ie: LOTR). As would Mr. Tolkien, and C.S. Lewis, who was the one that finally got Tolkien to publish it. In fact Tolkien led Lewis to Christ.....

IMO, you're too quick to assume the demonic here.... just because something's fantastic or unusual doesn't mean it's lousy with demons.....sometimes dismissing something out of fear of "guilt by association" leads one into missing something good, even Godly.

 

[Suzannah]

I am a former Wiccan. This work contains absolutely NO reference (or even stretch of the imagination toward) witchcraft. This work is a completely Catholic allegory for the study of Christianity and an excercise in Norse languages. It is a beautiful tribute to the Lord. Satan will twist anything he can gets his hands on and this is one perfect example. Please run, do not walk, to your nearest library for "The Letters of JRR Tolkien"....it's a fantastic read and offers great insight. You will especially benefit from his corresopondence with his friend, CS Lewis who was writing the Chronicles of Narnia at the same time frame...I hope you enjoy and I hope you will appreciate the beauty of the Gospel message as framed by Tolkien in his allegorical work!

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

I hope you enjoy and I hope you will appreciate the beauty of the Gospel message as framed by Tolkien in his allegorical work!

Tut tut... "applicational", not allegorical ;-) He wasn't fond of blatant allegory..... but now I'm being picky In any case I agree.

The opening portions of the Silmarillion made me misty-eyed....

 

[Suzannah]

Hi! Yes, you're right...allegory was a bad word in his dictionary and I would agree "applicational" would be better...would it not also be correct to say that he set out to create a modern "mythical" representation? In any case, I agree that Tolkien was a) A christian, b) a scholar and c) dedicated to the glory of the Lord. It is evident in his work....thanks for "correcting" me ...you are quite right!

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

would it not also be correct to say that he set out to create a modern "mythical" representation?

Absolutely. Tolkien's unmatched for the detail and richness he lavished into the world of LOTR.

In any case, I agree that Tolkien was a) A christian, b) a scholar and c) dedicated to the glory of the Lord. It is evident in his work....thanks for "correcting" me ...you are quite right!

Oh absolutely. IMO the world of "Christian writers" needs more Tolkiens, Lewises and Flannery O'Conners ... Believers whose faith impacts their works which go on to be enjoyed deeply by millions......and a few less Jeanette Okes and Tim LaHayes.... but that's me

 

[Suzannah]

You got dat right!!!!
Here's me buying you a virtual cup of coffee! absolutely you are right...we need fewer Bruce Wilkinson's and more St. Peter's...you got my vote on dat!

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Tolkien was a linguist for Pete's sake. Instead of teaching about Anglo-Saxon literature and culture, he recreated it in his books. In doing so he immerses the reader into the that world in a way no history book could ever hope to. It was, and remains, revolutionary.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

You got dat right!!!!
Here's me buying you a virtual cup of coffee! absolutely you are right...we need fewer Bruce Wilkinson's and more St. Peter's...you got my vote on dat!

Mmmm..... coffee. thankew.....

 

[Requitus]

To the person who said that if we ever meet an elf we'll assume it's friendly because of the movies: If I ever meet an elf I'm not going to assume it's friendly. I'm going to hope it's friendly and try to be friendly to it. But it really depends on the elf's mood at the time of meeting, the circumstances under which we meet, and its overall personality. Not whether it's an elf or it exists or not.

To you other people I wish to address 4 questions:
1) Have any of you ever heard of a language called "blood"? My friends told me some kind of priests speak it, but I have no clue what religion they follow.
2&3) What are blessings and how do I get them? I want to make a signature but I need 50 blessings. I'm more than willing to bet that by the time I have enough blessings I won't be able to come up with a good signature, or just won't care anymore. But, oh well.
4) How is everybody? (A small attempt to sound more personable than I have for the first few parts of the letter. Not as sincere as I'd have liked, but I don't know any of you, so I can't truthfully say I'm absolutely rivetted to know how your life is working, but...well, there goes that shred of humanity I was working for. That sucks. Oh well.)

 

[Brooke]

There you go-- enough blessings for a signature and one for good luck. (Not that I believe in luck or anything--that's just a figure of speech.)
Blessings are these nice little things that you can give to other users at will. They're used as a sort of currency when it comes to signatures or avatars, but otherwise they are like a way for others to show their appreciation to you or some such thing.
God Bless you!