My view of UCC conflicted

[tinythinker]

Why does it bother me to see that this congregation has its roots in Calvinism...?

Or that the Heidelberg Confession from which the founder congregations took their direction focuses so strongly on utter depravity and God's wrath equalling eternal torment?

Or that other historical influences preached a minimal liturgy allowing only those things mentioned in the Bible?

Etc...

I guess I am confused about how the history of the UCC connects with its present and future.

I have read lots of stuff from the UCC website, and some UCCers borrows Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox things like Lectio Divina and the Jesus Prayer. I have heard about the political tendencies. I've seen the commercials and learned about the Still Speaking campaign. I read blogs by UCC people like Chuck Currie and Faithful Progressive. That seems to be part of my confusion. Does the UCC just not care about these historical influences in terms of informing its current views? Am I misreading something somewhere? How does a hellfire and brimstone descendant of Calvinism that affirms a document saying humans are totally corrupt and evil beings that an angry God is going to smite with endless damnation, etc, square that with the other beliefs presented?

 

[Supernaut]

Why does it bother me to see that this congregation has its roots in Calvinism...?

Or that the Heidelberg Confession from which the founder congregations took their direction focuses so strongly on utter depravity and God's wrath equalling eternal torment?

Or that other historical influences preached a minimal liturgy allowing only those things mentioned in the Bible?

Etc...

I guess I am confused about how the history of the UCC connects with its present and future.

I have read lots of stuff from the UCC website, and some UCCers borrows Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox things like Lectio Divina and the Jesus Prayer. I have heard about the political tendencies. I've seen the commercials and learned about the Still Speaking campaign. I read blogs by UCC people like Chuck Currie and Faithful Progressive. That seems to be part of my confusion. Does the UCC just not care about these historical influences in terms of informing its current views? Am I misreading something somewhere? How does a hellfire and brimstone descendant of Calvinism that affirms a document saying humans are totally corrupt and evil beings that an angry God is going to smite with endless damnation, etc, square that with the other beliefs presented?

The congregations are so different from end of the spectrum to the other. Some hold to strict traditional doctrine while others lean more heavily to Esoteric Christianity.

As far as holding to Calvinistic traditions like Hellfire and Brimstone...I have never heard of a UCC Church that actually believes and teaches that doctrine of hate.

Remember though that all Churches will have their liberals and conservatives.

 

[atcfisherman]

I have met some people from the church of christ denomination and some were of the hell fire and brimstone, but some weren't. It really depends on each congregation and what is taught.

 

[b.hopeful]

I have met some people from the church of christ denomination and some were of the hell fire and brimstone, but some weren't. It really depends on each congregation and what is taught.

Atc....there's a big difference between the UCC(United Church of Christ) and CoC(Church of Christ). They are often confused.

 

[Supernaut]

I have met some people from the church of christ denomination and some were of the hell fire and brimstone, but some weren't. It really depends on each congregation and what is taught.

Keep in mind that "Church of Christ" and "United Church of Christ" are completely different denoms.

COC is definetely hellfire and brimstone whereas even the most conservative UCC does not usually adhere to the doctrine of hell.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Yeah most of the UCC churches I've attended have really preached a social gospel.

CoC on the other hand is full of hyper-calvinist rhetoric.(my experience only of course).

Thanks for letting me visit guys.

 

[atcfisherman]

Atc....there's a big difference between the UCC(United Church of Christ) and CoC(Church of Christ). They are often confused.

Sorry, I actually didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I assume that I can type each in at google and read the differences? Again, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Paul1965]

I grew up in a UCC church. From what I understand the UCC is very liberal. Their slogan is "God is still speaking." I think they have a tendency to forget that God spoke (the scriptures)! I have not been part of UCC for 25 years, but believe their LEADERSHIP needs to take the initiative for revival and returning to scripture to really hear God speak!

 

[spinningtutu]

Well... the UCC as a whole is more varied than not. There are some "liberal" areas (especially along coast lines), there are more "conservative" ones, there actually is a historical/traditional/fundamentalist group within the UCC which advocates for a strict return to the roots, there is the "God is still speaking" initiative which some have adopted, just as the "Open and Affirming" initiative is optional.

I think that asking "What is the UCC like?" is the wrong question... and that it is more helpful to ask "what is the individual congregation like?" In the end, the congregational polity and the openess to diversity seem to be the two connecting strands throughout the denomination as a whole. However, it is also probably true that within the UCC, those who are middle-to-left leaning hold the majority and that those who are right-leaning are in the minority.

The first UCC I ever attended was in a very Evangelical part of the Midwest, in a small city... and it was pretty much a traditional Calvinist church except that in that congregation there were a minority of "progressives" who were into reading stuff like Campolo and ordaining women. At one point in that church's history, one of their pastors came out of the closet and the congregation sucessful voted to have them removed from the church.

The second UCC I went to was practically the polar opposite of the first - and it was located in a very secular part of New England. The minister was female, the congregation voted to become "Open and Affirming" and to take part in the "God is still speaking" initiative. The message for Easter sunday openly questioned (if not denied) the bodily resurrection and, at times, I wondered if I was the only person there who held a High Christology.

The third UCC I went to was a progressive-Evangelical place. Yes, there was a huge emphasis on the Social Gospel, very Campolo style... the main pastor was female, it was a multi-cultural and multi-racial place, people did not like George W Bush, it was Open & Affirming with a significant queer population... and at the same time, people believed in and worshipped the Risen Christ. The liturgy included Confession time, to repent of our sins... it was a place that believed in the Gospel message.
...It was, more or less, my cup of tea (so to speak).

But my own experience here highlights why I am UCC... I used to be trying to find the "right" denomination (i.e. the one that agreed with me on everything I believe). But that doesn't really exist. But what can happen - is that a person can find a congregation of like-minded people, a family to be a part of. Since I'm in seminary, I need the UCC in the sense that I need the freedom to truly be myself without also denying everyone else in the Church who isn't like me.

 

[tinythinker]

Well... the UCC as a whole is more varied than not. There are some "liberal" areas (especially along coast lines), there are more "conservative" ones, there actually is a historical/traditional/fundamentalist group within the UCC which advocates for a strict return to the roots, there is the "God is still speaking" initiative which some have adopted, just as the "Open and Affirming" initiative is optional.

I think that asking "What is the UCC like?" is the wrong question... and that it is more helpful to ask "what is the individual congregation like?" In the end, the congregational polity and the openess to diversity seem to be the two connecting strands throughout the denomination as a whole. However, it is also probably true that within the UCC, those who are middle-to-left leaning hold the majority and that those who are right-leaning are in the minority.

The first UCC I ever attended was in a very Evangelical part of the Midwest, in a small city... and it was pretty much a traditional Calvinist church except that in that congregation there were a minority of "progressives" who were into reading stuff like Campolo and ordaining women. At one point in that church's history, one of their pastors came out of the closet and the congregation sucessful voted to have them removed from the church.

The second UCC I went to was practically the polar opposite of the first - and it was located in a very secular part of New England. The minister was female, the congregation voted to become "Open and Affirming" and to take part in the "God is still speaking" initiative. The message for Easter sunday openly questioned (if not denied) the bodily resurrection and, at times, I wondered if I was the only person there who held a High Christology.

The third UCC I went to was a progressive-Evangelical place. Yes, there was a huge emphasis on the Social Gospel, very Campolo style... the main pastor was female, it was a multi-cultural and multi-racial place, people did not like George W Bush, it was Open & Affirming with a significant queer population... and at the same time, people believed in and worshipped the Risen Christ. The liturgy included Confession time, to repent of our sins... it was a place that believed in the Gospel message.
...It was, more or less, my cup of tea (so to speak).

But my own experience here highlights why I am UCC... I used to be trying to find the "right" denomination (i.e. the one that agreed with me on everything I believe). But that doesn't really exist. But what can happen - is that a person can find a congregation of like-minded people, a family to be a part of. Since I'm in seminary, I need the UCC in the sense that I need the freedom to truly be myself without also denying everyone else in the Church who isn't like me.

Sure, no group is perfect, but some sermons just strike one as so immature, ignorant, or wrong-headed that you just feel like the approval by the congregation tells you what you need to know about fitting in. The local UCC isn't a welcoming or Still Speaking group, and this is a fairly conservative non-urban area.

 

[tinythinker]

I know that congregations are somewhat independent and range a bit in politics and theology, but I was wondering to what degree the local church here is typical. Their service is on public access the third Sunday of every month. This is an outline of what I observed...

The front of the sanctuary a banner hanging on the wall. The top row from left to right has a female symbol the words "GOD CREATED" then a male symbol. The middle row has a picture on the left and right I can't make out but in the center below "GOD CREATED" is an image of the Earth. Below the Earth on the third row are the symbols for Alpha and Omega. Below the banner is a table with a cloth that has written on the front side that hangs down the words "HOLY HOLY HOLY". On the table in the center is a cross and a Bible with candles and flowers to the side. Standing next to the left and right of the table were flag stands with US and a state flag.

After the candles were lit a very small and aging choir sang I brief opening hymn I couldn't identify. Then an elderly lady got up for several minutes and did some dedications, prayer requests and upcoming weekly events, including things like Bible study and confirmation classes. There was also an announcement of Passing of the Peace and the danger of spreading the flu. This looked like the sign of friendship seen in Roman Catholic and Anglican services.

The whole congregation participated in an opening hymn, "Christians Come to Sing", then another elderly lady got up and read a Call to Worship which involved a call and response invoking the phrase "If the Lord were not on our side..." She next lead the congregation in a Prayer of Confession and Unity which seemed to emphasis the human depravity angle. At some point this became a spoken call and sung response.

The pastor stood and spoke about mercy (via substitutionary atonement) and announced that the congregation's sins were forgiven, then asked everyone to stand for a sung version of what the announcer seemed to call a Doxology I didn't recognize/had a hard time making out. The congregation remained standing to sing three full praise songs.

After the congregation was seated the pastor called the children to sit on the raised platform in the front of the sanctuary for the children's sermon, at which point he put on a chimp hand puppet to whom he frequently talked. He described an animal and had the children guess what is was (it was an elephant). Elephants are described as big, kind, and caring, which is determined to be a good thing, with the message that those who want to be big in the site of God must be like elephant and help one another. This is followed with practical examples a child might encounter as school or at home. This was capped with a prayer and a raisin snack.

A prayer part of the service came next, emphasizing God's goodness, human failings, and the gift of mercy. God was asked to help legislators make good laws and for peace treaties to be made and honored, that trouble people find God, and to honor the prayer requests that had been made. Reference was made to a healing service to be held next week. The prayer part ended with the Lord's Prayer. The choir then sang another song.

One of the elderly lady's returned with a Bible and did a scripture reading from Psalm 124. The Pastor then announced that the Gospel lesson for the service was from Mark chapter 9, verses 30-37, ending the reading with short prayer before starting a sermon about being number one. The sermon involved ideas about what winning means and what people are willing to do to win and how this relates to the disciples bickering over who was greatest among them. That to become the greatest is to become the least (to serve). Non-biblical examples and fables are then used to clarify the usefulness and wisdom of such a perspective.

One of the lady's returned again to lead the congregation in a recitation of the Apostle's Creed. Ushers came forward to get the collection plates for the offering. This was concluded by singing the Doxology as I have head it in protestant churches and a prayer for the offering by the Pastor. The congregation then sang a closing hymn.

So... familiar? Unfamiliar?

 

[Supernaut]

Wow Tiny, that is quite disimilar from my experience at the UCC here in Sacramento. Definetely less "traditional". And our choir is more youthful (cuz i'm in it! j/k). And our service is more meditational/spiritual.

 

[b.hopeful]

I've attended churches that were similar. Around here, we have lots of old german UCC churches with ancient members in it. However...we have plenty of UCC churches that are youthful and don't resemble that at all.

 

[spinningtutu]

How about Evangelical Gay churches within the UCC?

 

[Supernaut]

How about Evangelical Gay churches within the UCC?

There are multiple "open & affirming" congregations within the UCC. Most congregations ehre in CA tend to be that way including my own.

 

[b.hopeful]

In my area, we don't have too many ONA (open & affirming) congregations. I think it's hard for the older generations to vote to take on the title. However, those congregations can still have pastors that are open to the idea and very very gay friendly. I attended such a congregation.