My two favorite arguments for creation

[Gracchus]

This is a promise we all can claim from the Bible. The Bible clearly says that the Lord guards the bones of the righteous so that none of them is broken. If we are righteous before God, He will watch over us and protect us.

Psalm 34:19-20
Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the Lord delivers him out of them all.
[20] He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken.

So anyone who has ever broken a bone is, ipso facto, unrighteous?

Nor does the cited verse mention Jesus or crucifixion. Nor have you presented evidence that Jesus never had a bone broken. It seems unlikely that he could have had spikes driven through his feet with out a bone being broken.

In short, thy post pertaineth not to the subject.

 

[gluadys]

From what we read about Mary in the Bible and in the personal letters that she wrote at the time, ...

Mary wrote personal letters?????

 

[nyjbarnes]

You either had a bad and unqualified teacher or weren't paying attention all that carefully during class and are making this up as you go along.

Most likely both!

 

[nyjbarnes]

The predictive nature of the Bible argument seems to have dropped off the grid. nyjbarnes cited two examples. He said the Bible predicted Jesus' legs would not be broken during his crucifixion. He said the Bible predicted that Jesus would be "born in a manger".

Both these "predictions" have been called into question, but he has not cited any biblical chapter and verse where these alleged prophecies occur.

The watch on the moor argument was refuted as soon as Paley proposed it, which nyjbarnes might have known had he actually ever read a book or done a google.

It would seem his biblical predictions are equally baseless.

"He opened his mouth to witness, and brayed like a jackass." -- Will Runshome

This clearly shows that mister Runshome correctly predicted the opening post.

The thing is; and I don't know if you have noticed this or not...but there is like 10 of you and one of me. All of you are bringing up points to which I have tried in earnest to respond. So please, don't insult me... I don't get paid to do this, and I bet most of the people you debate with have packed up their bags well before 100+ posts. A little respect please... Can'a get'a (amen)

So back to the predicitive nature of the Bible.

How familiar are you with the process of Roman crusifixion?

2nd, I mispoke about Christ being born in a manger. I later corrected myself in a later post.

http://www.christianforums.com/t778103&page=4&pp=20

From the site referenced

"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." (Micah 5:2) <b>born in Bethlehem</b> And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, in order to register, along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.... And she gave birth to her first-born son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. (Luke 2:4-5, 7)


As far as the Bones

He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken. (Psalms 34:20)

No Bones Broken

The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs;... For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken." (John 19:32, 33, 36)


As far as the watch...just because someone refute's something doesn't make it invalid. So at least, if you are going to attempt to insult my research or understanding...or even allude to...please expand your insult to include the logic that would allow for such an exception.

It would seem his biblical predictions are equally baseless.

If this is how you arrive at evolutionary or theological ends...I am real nervous and hopeful you never get into a powerful position. Conjecture solves nothing except to boost egos and deflate the bell curve of IQ's in the room.

"He opened his mouth to witness, and brayed like a jackass." -- Will Runshome

This quote like many was probably achieved through experience. Just remember about the whole stones in glass houses thing. It's not a threat, more of just a reminder that peeing in the wind can seem fun until inveitably you are reminded why it wasn't.

Just my thoughts. Sorry if I have missed anything. I am sure you will remind me.

 

[Arikay]

Sorry to tell you but if someone refutes it, it does make it an invalid argument. Unless you can show how the refutation was wrong.

 

[Freodin]

Regarding the "predictive nature":

Can you provide any example for this that is not based on circular reasoning?

The "broken bones" is a perfect example for this kind of logic.

When it comes to prophecy, it seems some Christians ignore their most often used argument against "contradicting bible verses" - context.

Ps 34:21 does, if you read it in context, not talk about Jesus, but about "the just" - the ones that are also talked about in the previous verses.

So why is this specific verse "prophecy about Jesus"? Because John 19:36 says so? How does John know that?

And here the circular thinking sets in: this verse in fulfilled prophecy, because someone in the Bible said it is fulfilled prophecy. The Bible is correct. We know that the Bible is correct, because it contains fulfilled prophecy.

 

[nyjbarnes]

Sorry to tell you but if someone refutes it, it does make it an invalid argument. Unless you can show how the refutation was wrong.

yes you are right. I used improper language. THat is what I meant.

 

[nyjbarnes]

Regarding the "predictive nature":

Can you provide any example for this that is not based on circular reasoning?

The "broken bones" is a perfect example for this kind of logic.

When it comes to prophecy, it seems some Christians ignore their most often used argument against "contradicting bible verses" - context.

Ps 34:21 does, if you read it in context, not talk about Jesus, but about "the just" - the ones that are also talked about in the previous verses.

So why is this specific verse "prophecy about Jesus"? Because John 19:36 says so? How does John know that?

And here the circular thinking sets in: this verse in fulfilled prophecy, because someone in the Bible said it is fulfilled prophecy. The Bible is correct. We know that the Bible is correct, because it contains fulfilled prophecy.

Most of the prophecies that I know of presume a certain understanding, aceceptance of faith, or a study of the surrounding materials. Meaning you already know about the Bible, you accept it wholly, or you are in the process of researching the item and the surrounding text, knowing who the speaker is, how they arrived at that text, who told them to write that...etc.


Short answer is that I can't right now...but I will see what I can find.

 

[Freodin]

Most of the prophecies that I know of presume a certain understanding, aceceptance of faith, or a study of the surrounding materials. Meaning you already know about the Bible, you accept it wholly, or you are in the process of researching the item and the surrounding text, knowing who the speaker is, how they arrived at that text, who told them to write that...etc.


Short answer is that I can't right now...but I will see what I can find.

I am always willing to allow you research - but as I have had this type of discussion before, please don´t be offended if I state I would be surprised if you would find a reasonable answer on that topic.

 

[Gracchus]

So back to the predicitive nature of the Bible.

How familiar are you with the process of Roman crusifixion?

I am familiar with it.

2nd, I mispoke about Christ being born in a manger. I later corrected myself in a later post.

http://www.christianforums.com/t778103&page=4&pp=20

The reference is Luke 2:7. It doesn't say he was born at the inn, but he must have been born somewhere near animals because it says "[Mary] ...laid him in a manger because there was no place for them in the inn."

Could have been the stable of the inn as implied in the traditional Christmas concert, or, as another tradition has it, in a cave where animals were sheltered, or in a part of a private home when the domestic animals were kept. Or, it could even be that a manger was brought into a house and he was not actually surrounded by animals at all.

(One of my aunts used to lay visiting babies in a dresser drawer, since she didn't have a crib in the house.)

So what you're saying is that your first "prophecy" was in error.

From the site referenced

"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." (Micah 5:2)

<b>born in Bethlehem</b> And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, in order to register, along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.... And she gave birth to her first-born son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. (Luke 2:4-5, 7)

So the prophecy is that some one from Bethlehem will rule Israel. How do you know it was Jesus who was meant? It seems unlikely, because Jesus never ruled Israel.

As far as the Bones

He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken. (Psalms 34:20)

No Bones Broken

The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs;... For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken." (John 19:32, 33, 36)

Psalms 34:17

The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a
contrite spirit.
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

I am familiar with this. It states that the righteous shall suffer no broken bones. It is a most impressive claim, but is it true? If so, then anyone who has ever broken a bone is unrighteous. Where is the prophecy that states that Jesus' bones would not be broken?

As far as the watch...just because someone refute's something doesn't make it invalid. So at least, if you are going to attempt to insult my research or understanding...or even allude to...please expand your insult to include the logic that would allow for such an exception.

Main Entry: re·fute
Pronunciation: ri-'fyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): re·fut·ed; re·fut·ing
Etymology: Latin refutare to check, suppress, refute
1 : to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous
2 : to deny the truth or accuracy of <refuted the allegations>

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

You have been refuted in both senses of the word.

If this is how you arrive at evolutionary or theological ends...I am real nervous and hopeful you never get into a powerful position. Conjecture solves nothing except to boost egos and deflate the bell curve of IQ's in the room.

Getting desperate are you, resorting to ad hominems?

This quote like many was probably achieved through experience.

Actually, I got it from the same place you got your prophecies. I made it up, just for you.

Just remember about the whole stones in glass houses thing.

I live in a frame house and I haven't thrown a stone in years.

It's not a threat, more of just a reminder that peeing in the wind can seem fun until inveitably you are reminded why it wasn't.

You have weird ideas of fun. And most of us would foresee the result, and need no reminder. Consider this a reminder. You have wet yourself, metaphorically at least.

Just my thoughts. Sorry if I have missed anything. I am sure you will remind me.

What you have missed is providing any support for your assertions that Jesus was born in a manger, or that any prophecy said he was. I think you have ceded that one.

You have also missed citing the prophecy that Jesus bones would not be broken when he was crucified.

That's two prophecies down and two hundred and ninety-eight to go. Do you want to dwell on the first two, or do you want to move on? Or perhaps you would just rather drop the subject?

 

[gluadys]

Originally Posted by: gluadys

The reference is Luke 2:7. It doesn't say he was born at the inn, but he must have been born somewhere near animals because it says "[Mary] ...laid him in a manger because there was no place for them in the inn."

Could have been the stable of the inn as implied in the traditional Christmas concert, or, as another tradition has it, in a cave where animals were sheltered, or in a part of a private home when the domestic animals were kept. Or, it could even be that a manger was brought into a house and he was not actually surrounded by animals at all.

(One of my aunts used to lay visiting babies in a dresser drawer, since she didn't have a crib in the house.)

So what you're saying is that your first "prophecy" was in error.

That was me, not nyjbarnes. I was responding to a post where someone (nyj?) said they couldn't find the reference to the manger.

I was surprised to see the suggestion that there was a prophecy to that effect. Never heard of it. Only the one about Bethlehem being the place of birth of the messiah.

 

[Ryal Kane]

Firstly
If I have a shopping list, then I go and b the things on that list, I haven't fufilled a prophecy. I've just followed the list.
Stories of the Messiah were commonly known two thousand years ago. Anyone who wanted to be seen as the messiah just had to follow the list.

Secondly
If a character at the end of a book, fufills a prophecy from the beginning of a book, it's not exactly amazing. It just shows the author(s) did some planning or perhaps some revision.

Ryal Kane

 

[nyjbarnes]

Secondly
If a character at the end of a book, fufills a prophecy from the beginning of a book, it's not exactly amazing. It just shows the author(s) did some planning or perhaps some revision.

Ryal Kane

WOW! Stated like I couldn't have said myself....in order for your postulation to be correct there would have to have been an author who understood all timelines, people, places, events and misc items from start to finish to have a contiguous story. Much like an author would to a fictional book. Couldn't be God huh? I mean the Bible only spans a few thousand years in it's writing.

 

[Ryal Kane]

WOW! Stated like I couldn't have said myself....in order for your postulation to be correct there would have to have been an author who understood all timelines, people, places, events and misc items from start to finish to have a contiguous story. Much like an author would to a fictional book. Couldn't be God huh? I mean the Bible only spans a few thousand years in it's writing.

I said author(s). I was giving an example. In the vase of the bible is is authors, plural. Written by many people over many years.
When you add, you have previous texts and stories to base your work on. You fit the story. Sometimes you might alter the previous stories to fit yours.
Sometimes you simply write your own without comparing, leading to contradictions between what others wrote. A single omnipotent author would not do that. Multiple, flawed human writers would.

You will probably argue that the Bible has no contradictions or errors.
Any text can be inerrant so long you're willing to stretch the meaning of the text to fit percieved reality.

Ryal Kane

 

[nyjbarnes]

You will probably argue that the Bible has no contradictions or errors.
Any text can be inerrant so long you're willing to stretch the meaning of the text to fit percieved reality.

Ryal Kane

While what you say is true, I don't believe it applies. The unfortunate thing about arguing the semantics of the inerrancy of the Bible is that you probably don't, nor do I understand Greek, Latin or Hebrew, much less the customs and civilizations of those respective lanaguages to argue intelligently.

Admittedly, I stand on the shoulders of others as far as the inerrancey of the Bible but research where I can. If you have specific alleged contradictions I am willing to give them a go.

 

[Ryal Kane]

While what you say is true, I don't believe it applies. The unfortunate thing about arguing the semantics of the inerrancy of the Bible is that you probably don't, nor do I understand Greek, Latin or Hebrew, much less the customs and civilizations of those respective lanaguages to argue intelligently.

Admittedly, I stand on the shoulders of others as far as the inerrancey of the Bible but research where I can. If you have specific alleged contradictions I am willing to give them a go.

The inevitable problem is that eventually the arguement falls back on faith.
I.E The rabbit does no chew cud (Lev 11.6) But one can argue this is a mistranslation, or a misunderstanding or even if neccesary a metaphor.

If the gospels claim that Christs last words were different (Luke 23:46 or John 19.30) then one could argue that Christ said both, or that the writers heard a different part, or both but only mentioned one.

The same is true in the oppoisite direction too. I find that the skeptic annotated bible often stretches the text to try and find a contradiction where the isn't an obvious one.

If one is willing to hypothisize and extend then all contradtictions can be explained in some manner.

For example: 1 + 1 = 4 and all sheep are green.
This is innerant, so long as you accept that 1 refers to one unit of two, sheep is a metaphor for people who are easily led and green refers to naivity.

Anything can be inerrant is you approach it that way. The question is, why should we approach the Bible as being inerrant?
Is it an important spiritual text? Yes.
Is it the foundation text for a widespread religion? Yes.

But there are many other texts that fit this description.
If you claim that the Bible is more true or more holy and that the others a false, what is your criteria for this? If you cite it's innerancy then you have fallen back into the circular logic trap.

The Bible cannot be used as a means of proving the merits of the Bible.
Personally, I believe it is an accumulated text of stories and myths, some based on reality, some not. The stories are changed and accumulated over millenia, cut and changed by the beliefs of those who copy them, who disturute them. Altered to fit the agenda's of those who believed that they were holy.
It has some good morals. It has some bad morals. It gets some things correct and make some mistakes.
I do not believe that it is a testament to the nature of God.
But it is certainly an interesting testament to the nature of man.

Ryal Kane

 

[Null-Geodesic]

Admittedly, I stand on the shoulders of others as far as the inerrancey of the Bible but research where I can. If you have specific alleged contradictions I am willing to give them a go.

Bible: Grasshoppers have 4 legs
Reality: Grasshoppers have 6 legs

Bible: The mustard seed is the least of all seeds
Reality: The mustard seed is not the least of all seeds

Game over! Bible is not inerrant.!

 

[Vance]

Here are a few of the contradictions we find within the text itself. While there are some "work-arounds" for some of these if you are willing to twist things around, but for some it is simply impossible. Since both can't be true, there is an error somewhere.

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

AND

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.



GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

AND

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

[man first v. animals first]

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

AND

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

[seven or two?]



Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

AND
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."



Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

AND

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."



II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee?

AND

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;



God CAN be seen:

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)



"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)

AND

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

[Judas’ death]



"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)

AND

"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)



ACT 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

AND

MAT 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
MAT 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
MAT 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

[the reason for the name "field of blood"]



PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

AND

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.



SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

AND

SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:



KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

AND

CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.



ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

AND

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.



MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

AND

LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

[was there one angel or two?]

When did Baasha die?

26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8

OR

36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1

color of the robe put on Jesus during His trial:

scarlet - Matthew 27:28

purple - John 19:2

 

[pureone]

WOW! Stated like I couldn't have said myself....in order for your postulation to be correct there would have to have been an author who understood all timelines, people, places, events and misc items from start to finish to have a contiguous story. Much like an author would to a fictional book. Couldn't be God huh? I mean the Bible only spans a few thousand years in it's writing.

No. What he is saying is that the authors or copiers of the christian bible continued to alter things as they saw fit in order to make things mesh because of the time span and inconsistencies.

You are saying God is the author. Did he literally write the books?

 

[nyjbarnes]

Here are a few of the contradictions we find within the text itself. While there are some "work-arounds" for some of these if you are willing to twist things around, but for some it is simply impossible. Since both can't be true, there is an error somewhere.

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

AND

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.



GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

AND

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

[man first v. animals first]

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

AND

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

[seven or two?]



Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

AND
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."



Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

AND

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."



II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee?

AND

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;



God CAN be seen:

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)



"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)

AND

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

[Judas’ death]



"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)

AND

"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)



ACT 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

AND

MAT 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
MAT 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
MAT 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

[the reason for the name "field of blood"]



PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

AND

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.



SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

AND

SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:



KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

AND

CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.



ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

AND

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.



MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

AND

LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

[was there one angel or two?]

When did Baasha die?

26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8

OR

36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1

color of the robe put on Jesus during His trial:

scarlet - Matthew 27:28

purple - John 19:2

Good post Vance, this will take some time to digest.