Sadiegrl
Merging my Theology with Reality!!!
Great response Mike! I completely agree.
To Colter, I also worked all the 12 steps and graduated from a year long commitment and did fully surrender to God...I'm sure you weren't meaning to sound as if those who don't feel it is the ONLY WAY, never really hit a bottom, or got over their denial, or ever really surrendered to God, because that's completely untrue and isn't biblical. Even Paul who was greatly used by God, confessed in Romans 6-8 how he struggled with the two separate sides of himself, one that loved God and wanted to do what was right, and the other side that sabotaged him consistently and he agonized that he alone could not do what was needed to please God, despite his intentions and best efforts. It took more, God's power, the indwelling presence of Christ in us. This was after his ministry had begun and his relationship with God was healthy. So then, was Paul in denial because he found struggles within himself? I think not. But I do recognize the need to surrender ourselves daily to Christ and commit to walk in His way, allowing Him to lead us and handle the battles in His power, mine is but weaknesses...but who of us is completely spiritual with eyes and ears fully developed to follow Him without faltering?
This is what I understand meetings to be created for: people to share and encourage one another and fellowship. It teaches some great tools for handling out of control feelings, desires and experiences. It's up to God to change us once we let go of control. This is something I struggle with almost absentmindedly... and as in Romans 12 we are to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, allowing God to shape us, this being a spiritual act of worship. I like this image of subduing the flesh, and read somewhere how frustrating it is when the living sacrifice keeps getting up off the altar!
Whether we choose to go to meetings or not, people should not look down on others for their finding success in something besides The Program. I have several friends that are in the 20+ years of sobriety, and I admire them, but I know that if I have a drink, I'm not going to immediately crave some heavy drug. Which is their philosophy and I feel uncomfortable having a drink at a party with them. Also, just my opinion but I think AA and NA groups that are not confessing Christ, are in my experience kind of a hinder to sobriety. Firstly, as Mike already expressed, the atmosphere is pretty depressing. It really is, you may hear some occasional uplifting words of perseverance, but for the most part its a bunch of terrible stories and how glad people are that they aren't there anymore. Accepting a newcomer chip gets a lot of applause, but when I was in rehab, we had to go to meetings like 4 times a week, and I didn't particularly want a collection of chips. I would turn them back in after I had a few. But the biggest issue was I think what some people refer to as 13th stepping someone...which is just a slang for hitting on other people. After the meetings, during the smoke break, guys would come up and try to talk to girls, getting their numbers so they could be an accountability partner. And when they'd hang out, guess they weren't far along enough in their program to go on a lil binge and break their number of days clean. I've seen it happen and known plenty of people that just went to hook up with other broken people. This wasn't so bad at CR, but still bothered me, maybe even more because its Christ centered and I wanted to feel safe, but because its a melting pot of issues at one place, there'd be sex addicts mingling with victims of abuse after splitting up into small groups.
Anyways, just wanted to defend that if the 12 step program didn't "cure" me then that doesn't mean that I didn't surrender to God fully and am still stuck at step 1. I've grown a lot in Christ, from where I was at my bottom and am filled with gratitude and peace, but there is still internal conflict. Isn't there in everyone?
To Colter, I also worked all the 12 steps and graduated from a year long commitment and did fully surrender to God...I'm sure you weren't meaning to sound as if those who don't feel it is the ONLY WAY, never really hit a bottom, or got over their denial, or ever really surrendered to God, because that's completely untrue and isn't biblical. Even Paul who was greatly used by God, confessed in Romans 6-8 how he struggled with the two separate sides of himself, one that loved God and wanted to do what was right, and the other side that sabotaged him consistently and he agonized that he alone could not do what was needed to please God, despite his intentions and best efforts. It took more, God's power, the indwelling presence of Christ in us. This was after his ministry had begun and his relationship with God was healthy. So then, was Paul in denial because he found struggles within himself? I think not. But I do recognize the need to surrender ourselves daily to Christ and commit to walk in His way, allowing Him to lead us and handle the battles in His power, mine is but weaknesses...but who of us is completely spiritual with eyes and ears fully developed to follow Him without faltering?
This is what I understand meetings to be created for: people to share and encourage one another and fellowship. It teaches some great tools for handling out of control feelings, desires and experiences. It's up to God to change us once we let go of control. This is something I struggle with almost absentmindedly... and as in Romans 12 we are to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, allowing God to shape us, this being a spiritual act of worship. I like this image of subduing the flesh, and read somewhere how frustrating it is when the living sacrifice keeps getting up off the altar!
Whether we choose to go to meetings or not, people should not look down on others for their finding success in something besides The Program. I have several friends that are in the 20+ years of sobriety, and I admire them, but I know that if I have a drink, I'm not going to immediately crave some heavy drug. Which is their philosophy and I feel uncomfortable having a drink at a party with them. Also, just my opinion but I think AA and NA groups that are not confessing Christ, are in my experience kind of a hinder to sobriety. Firstly, as Mike already expressed, the atmosphere is pretty depressing. It really is, you may hear some occasional uplifting words of perseverance, but for the most part its a bunch of terrible stories and how glad people are that they aren't there anymore. Accepting a newcomer chip gets a lot of applause, but when I was in rehab, we had to go to meetings like 4 times a week, and I didn't particularly want a collection of chips. I would turn them back in after I had a few. But the biggest issue was I think what some people refer to as 13th stepping someone...which is just a slang for hitting on other people. After the meetings, during the smoke break, guys would come up and try to talk to girls, getting their numbers so they could be an accountability partner. And when they'd hang out, guess they weren't far along enough in their program to go on a lil binge and break their number of days clean. I've seen it happen and known plenty of people that just went to hook up with other broken people. This wasn't so bad at CR, but still bothered me, maybe even more because its Christ centered and I wanted to feel safe, but because its a melting pot of issues at one place, there'd be sex addicts mingling with victims of abuse after splitting up into small groups.
Anyways, just wanted to defend that if the 12 step program didn't "cure" me then that doesn't mean that I didn't surrender to God fully and am still stuck at step 1. I've grown a lot in Christ, from where I was at my bottom and am filled with gratitude and peace, but there is still internal conflict. Isn't there in everyone?
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