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Subject: me,
content: derogatory pedantic remarks.
If you had a problem with my terms you would have addressed my definitions with better ones. You didn't even try, that's fallacious rhetoric and it's a cruel taskmaster.
I didn't define it, Charles Darwin did:
Random personal remarks, that's the way to take the party line.
Now he's stuck with it.The theory of natural selection is based on naturalistic assumptions. "The doctrine that species, including man, are descended from other species...being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition" (Preface, On the Origin of Species). That is mutually exclusive with creation, design or miraculous interposition of any kind.
Subject: me,
content: derogatory pedantic remarks.
If you had a problem with my terms you would have addressed my definitions with better ones. You didn't even try, that's fallacious rhetoric and it's a cruel taskmaster.
What question did I not answer? Be specific please and a post number would help.
I realize that some want to use their own definition of "theory" but that does not preclude others from using the common English one, do you think?
Wait, What? Really?? It says it Right There! "The Earth" "shall" "be stable" - "the World" "not" "do moved" -how do you *plainly* read it then?
"Let tremble all the earth from before Him" - does that mean the earth is "fixed" or, in context, is the passage speaking of people? "keep straight the earth and not be shaken" Does that imply "fixed" to you? It seems to me it is to keep straight, nothing about fixed.
It seems to me that your verse is taken totally out of context of the passage which is about giving glory to the Lord, do you disagree with that?
“Give to the Lord the glory due His name; Bring an offering, and come before Him. Oh, worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness! Tremble before Him, all the earth. The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved. Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; And let them say among the nations, “The Lord reigns.”” (1 Chronicles 16:29–31, NKJV)
Can the "earth be glad" or can all the people of the earth be glad?
Got another scenario for you. God creates the universe including the stars, moon and earth billions of years ago and life about 6 thousand years ago.
You really need to pay more attention.
I am done with you SZ, it is obvious to me that you have no interest in a serious discussion, you do not honor your word and answer questions that I ask you after saying that you would and to be honest, you make accusations that you cannot prove and much of what you write is illogical and/or irrational or both, just my view.
Two questions... 1) what is your definition of "Christian"? 2) Do you have verifiable data for that "close to two billion Christians" figure?Close to two billion Christians would disagree with you about it.
In post 159, I tried to answer this question about the origin of space, matter, energy and time. In post 168 you said,Even though you did not answer my question, I will answer this one. I absolutely do have and will until Science can provide empirical evidence of, "in the beginning," where, when and how did space, matter, energy, time and natural laws came into existence and, in what sequence. Furthermore, I will make a bold prediction that science never will provide answers to those questions from the natural laws of science. MY belief. If one does not accept Genesis, you might as well throw out the entire Bible because Genesis sets the foundation for all of scripture, IMO.
I will be happy to engage in a serious discussion of the subject, IF, we both agree to answer all questions that we may be asked with plausible, verifiable, when possible, answers, are you interested?
That's called an ad hominem fallacy, you argue little else. You've abandoned the subject matter and made it all about personal remarks. That's when I know I got you, when you have nothing else. Welcome to my ignore list.
In post 159, I tried to answer this question about the origin of space, matter, energy and time. In post 168 you said,
I did answer your post 168 in post 178, but have received no reply. I was a bit wary of accepting conditions, since I did not want to be dragged into arguments about extraneous issues, but if you really want to engage in a serious discussion, I will join you in it, and will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. I look forward to hearing from you.
Desperate? I'm little more the bored watching you beat up on an argument I never made.
First of all evolution is the change of alleles (traits) in populations over time, not the a priori assumption of universal common ancestry by exclusively naturalistic means. That particular fallacy is called equivocation.
The Genesis account of creation defines 'creation' perfectly well.
Created
The phrase, 'heaven and the earth', is a Hebrew expression meaning the universe. All we really get from this passage is that the cosmos and earth were created, 'in the beginning'. The perspective of creation week is from the surface of the earth, starting with the Spirit of God hovering over the deep (Gen. 1:2). In the chapter there are three words used for God's work in creation. The first is 'created' ('bara' H1254) a very precise term used only of God.
Create ‘bara’ (H1254) - 'This verb has profound theological significance, since it has only God as it’s subject. Only God can create in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses the idea of creation out of nothing...(Vines Expository Dictionary)
Made
It is used once to describe the creation of the universe (Gen 1:1), then again to describe the creation of life (Gen 1:21). Finally, in the closing verses, it is used three times for the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27). The word translated, 'made' (asah 6213) , has a much broader range of meaning and is used to speak of the creation of the 'firmament' (Gen 1:7), the sun, moon and stars (Gen 1:16), procreation where offspring are made 'after his/their kind' (Gen 1:25) and as a general reference to creation in it's vast array (Gen 1:31).
Made ‘asah’(H6213) "A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application" (Gen 1:7, Gen 1:16, Gen 1:25, Gen 1:31, Isa. 41:20, 43:7, 45:7, 12, Amos 4:13). (Strong’s Dictionary). "The verb, which occurs over 2600 times in the Old Testament, is used as a synonym for “create” only about 60 times…only when asah is parallel to bara…can we be sure that it implies creation." (Vine 52).
Set
Then there is a third term when God 'set' (nathan H2414), the lights of the sun, moon and stars so that their light is regularly visible from the surface of the earth. In this way the narrative shifts from the very precise word for 'created' to the more general 'made', and then the much broader use of 'set'.
Set (nathan H5414) A primitive root; to give, used with greatest latitude of application (Gen 1:17, Gen 9:13, Gen 18:8, Gen 30:40, Gen 41:41). Elsewhere translated ‘put’, ‘make’, ‘cause’, etc.
The creation account has great significance for the rest of Scripture and how these terms are used in the original and their natural context is essential to really following the text as it was intended to be understood.
God created the universe (Gen. 1:1), life in general (1:21) and man in particular (Gen. 1:27). The term 'bara' is used once for original creation, once for the creation of life and three times for the creation of Adam and Eve. God also created Israel:
Especially striking is the use of bara in Isaiah 40-65. Out of 49 occurrences of the verb in the Old Testament, 20 are in these chapters. Because Isaiah writes prophetically to the Jews in Exile, he speaks of comfort based upon God’s past benefits and blessings to His people. Isaiah especially wants to show that, since Yahweh is the Creator, His is able to deliver His people from captivity. The God of Israel has created all things: “I have made the earth, and created (bara) man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens and all their host have I commanded” (Isa. 45:12). The gods of Babylon are impotent nonentities (Isa. 44:12-20; 46:1-7), and so Israel can expect God to triumph by effecting a new creation, (Isa.: 43:16-21; 65:17-25). (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: By W. E. Vine, Merrill Unger)
The operative word was history, and you are obvious.
Unless of course, they were acquired from God. This account of creation was literally written in stone, it's part of the Ten Commandments and the whole reason for the Sabbath.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Gen. 20:11)God created life which is distinctly different from pagan myths, when tracing things back to original creation they invariably ended up with an elemental deity, earth, air, fire or water. This Babylonian myth indicates two water elementals, fresh and salt water apparently:
When in the height heaven was not named,
And the earth beneath did not yet bear a name,
And the primeval Apsu, who begat them,
And chaos, Tiamut, the mother of them both
Their waters were mingled together,
And no field was formed, no marsh was to be seen;
When of the gods none had been called into being. (Enuma Elish, the Epic of Creation)
Notice at creation the 'gods' didn't even exist.
Obviously the doctrine of creation is the heart of the emphasis but the text also describes creation as being largely a matter of separation. The light from darkness, waters above and below, land and sea. The word (בָּדַל badal H914) is used five times in the creation account then not used again until Exodus, 'The vail shall divide (H914) unto you between the holy place and the most holy' (Exo. 26:33). This is no coincidence, the idea of sanctification is literally the idea of separation, something set aside for God's exclusive use.
Amen to that !! It seems to be a typical ploy when one cannot offer verifiable evidence supporting their argument.
Great response and absolute facts, sadly, some will just ignore it and go off on a tangent.
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