My theory on creation.

tevans9129

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Creation, there is the BB theory which seems to be the one most Genesis deniers believe in and some others with a little different twist. I happen to be one that believes God said what He meant and He meant what he said so I have a theory about the NEC vs OEC.

In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

In what would become to be known as day one, He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to temporarily set up day and night until earth and the sun were created.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

On the third day, the waters below the firmament were gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The earth then brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

It was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time.


There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.

The time dimension was not created until the universe was placed into position. Scripture informs that God stretches the heavens, just like science came to believe thousands of years later.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.
 

RGW00

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Creation, there is the BB theory which seems to be the one most Genesis deniers believe in and some others with a little different twist. I happen to be one that believes God said what He meant and He meant what he said so I have a theory about the NEC vs OEC.

In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

In what would become to be known as day one, He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to temporarily set up day and night until earth and the sun were created.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

On the third day, the waters below the firmament were gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The earth then brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

It was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time.


There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.

The time dimension was not created until the universe was placed into position. Scripture informs that God stretches the heavens, just like science came to believe thousands of years later.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.
I agree with all of this. However, I wouldn't even believe it if man created a provable explanation for how everything came into existence. I have all the proof I need and that is the Bible's explanation of Creation. However, I don't believe all of what man has said about creation. Mainly, I don't have any idea how many years the world has existed. In fact, no one can find that.

I believe that as close as we get to the end of times, the more proof they are going to find against God because when the end occurs, Jesus will return and obtain the few Christians that remain. The closer we get to the end, the more we have to rely on faith, and the harder it will get to follow God through and through.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Creation, there is the BB theory which seems to be the one most Genesis deniers believe in and some others with a little different twist. I happen to be one that believes God said what He meant and He meant what he said so I have a theory about the NEC vs OEC.

In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

In what would become to be known as day one, He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to temporarily set up day and night until earth and the sun were created.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

On the third day, the waters below the firmament were gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The earth then brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

It was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time.


There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.

The time dimension was not created until the universe was placed into position. Scripture informs that God stretches the heavens, just like science came to believe thousands of years later.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.


Too long, didn't read. Here is a question for you:

What reasonable test could demonstrate that your "theory" is wrong, it is wrong? If you cannot think of a way of testing your concept all that you have is an ad hoc explanation and that is worthless in the world of science.

Second, how do you explain the mountains of scientific evidence supporting the theory of evolution and the total lack of such evidence for creationism? Again, if you can't answer that question all you have is an ad hoc explanation, and those are once again worthless.
 
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Speedwell

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Creation, there is the BB theory which seems to be the one most Genesis deniers believe in and some others with a little different twist. I happen to be one that believes God said what He meant and He meant what he said so I have a theory about the NEC vs OEC.

In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

In what would become to be known as day one, He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to temporarily set up day and night until earth and the sun were created.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

On the third day, the waters below the firmament were gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The earth then brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

It was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time.


There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.

The time dimension was not created until the universe was placed into position. Scripture informs that God stretches the heavens, just like science came to believe thousands of years later.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.
Not exactly. The existence of the supernatural and God's authorship of the universe are not inconsistent with whatever science may find out about our origins. What you have appear to have chosen is a literal interpretation of Genesis over science, rather than the existence of the supernatural over science.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Too long, didn't read. Here is a question for you:

What reasonable test could demonstrate that your "theory" is wrong, it is wrong? If you cannot think of a way of testing your concept all that you have is an ad hoc explanation and that is worthless in the world of science.

Second, how do you explain the mountains of scientific evidence supporting the theory of evolution and the total lack of such evidence for creationism? Again, if you can't answer that question all you have is an ad hoc explanation, and those are once again worthless.
Nobody here is talking about science. Therefore, there's no theory testing. His idea does not go against Scripture, so it's a good theory.
By the way, evolution in no way contradicts creationism.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Nobody here is talking about science. Therefore, there's no theory testing. His idea does not go against Scripture, so it's a good theory.
By the way, evolution in no way contradicts creationism.
Then a different word than "theory" should have been used. In regards to such claims as evolution or even the myth of creationism it has a very specific meaning in that context.

By the way, we know that the creation story is a myth because we can apply the scientific method to the theory of evolution.
 
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tevans9129

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Too long, didn't read. Here is a question for you:

What reasonable test could demonstrate that your "theory" is wrong, it is wrong? If you cannot think of a way of testing your concept all that you have is an ad hoc explanation and that is worthless in the world of science.

Did I say anything about science? It seems to me that, "a supernatural, intelligent being" would negate anything about "science".

Second, how do you explain the mountains of scientific evidence supporting the theory of evolution and the total lack of such evidence for creationism? Again, if you can't answer that question all you have is an ad hoc explanation, and those are once again worthless.

I promise to answer that question as soon as you answer this one. It was in my OP although not as a question so I will rephrase it.

Where, when and how did space, matter, energy and time come into existence and in what sequence, using empirical evidence for your answer?

Since you did not bother to read the OP, I have bolded some words that you missed in my quote.

Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.
 
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tevans9129

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What about Creation story part ii where Man was created first?

I happen to be one of those people that take Scripture just as it is written when it makes perfectly good sense and there is no compelling reason to believe it to be a metaphor, idiom, symbolism, etc.

Are you saying "Man was created first" like before heavens and earth? If so, if Scripture does not read that way, I do not accept it, do you?
 
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tevans9129

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Not exactly. The existence of the supernatural and God's authorship of the universe are not inconsistent with whatever science may find out about our origins. What you have appear to have chosen is a literal interpretation of Genesis over science, rather than the existence of the supernatural over science.

Guilty as charged.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1, NKJV)

God's Word was in the beginning and He was the Word therefore, I believe God and His Word.
 
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Speedwell

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I happen to be one of those people that take Scripture just as it is written when it makes perfectly good sense and there is no compelling reason to believe it to be a metaphor, idiom, symbolism, etc.
Good for you. Just so you understand that rejecting your view in the matter of Genesis is not the same as rejecting God's authorship of the universe and man, and our salvation through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ.
 
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tevans9129

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I have a couple of questions if anyone wishes to offer a plausible answer for. Time seems to be stated in microseconds, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years and light years, therefore, if there is no sun and earth's rotation, what are those units based on?

If, there is no intelligence to measure time, how can you prove the time dimension exists?

If, the time dimension did not exist until the sixth day, what effect would that have on setting the age of the universe?
 
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tevans9129

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Good for you. Just so you understand that rejecting your view in the matter of Genesis is not the same as rejecting God's authorship of the universe and man, and our salvation through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ.

I do not believe that I suggested that it did.
 
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tevans9129

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Then a different word than "theory" should have been used

I disagree, since there was nothing in my "theory" about science, is it not perfectly acceptable to use the common English definition of "theory"?

Theory: abstract thought: SPECULATION...a belief, policy, or procedure proposed
 
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Did I say anything about science? It seems to me that, "a supernatural, intelligent being" would negate anything about "science".

You used a scientific term in a part of the forum where science is the topic. In context you used the wrong word.

I promise to answer that question as soon as you answer this one. It was in my OP although not as a question so I will rephrase it.

Where, when and how did space, matter, energy and time come into existence and in what sequence, using empirical evidence for your answer?

When was roughly 13.8 billion years ago, at least that was when the universe as we know it began. I could link you to the work of physicists, but what they do is to measure how fast various galaxies are retreating from us and work backwards. To appreciate the answer you might need to learn quite a bit of basic science first.

Since you did not bother to read the OP, I have bolded some words that you missed in my quote.
Yes, you admitted to a irrational belief at the end of your post. You would rather believe in a myth that has been refuted than in an answer that is not complete yet. Creationists quite often make the mistake of assuming that because scientists do not know everything that they do not know anything. That is a rather bad assumption to make. When you were very young you would not have gotten lost if you walked around the block, but if someone dropped you off on the other side of town you would have been hopelessly lost. You knew something, but not everything. As you grew you learned more and more. The same applies to the sciences we are continually learning more and more.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I disagree, since there was nothing in my "theory" about science, is it not perfectly acceptable to use the common English definition of "theory"?

Theory: abstract thought: SPECULATION...a belief, policy, or procedure proposed

Not in this part of the forum. Again, in the science based parts of the forum one should use scientific definitions.

Here is an example that you should be able to relate to. This entire forum is a Christian forum. If someone uses the word "God" with upper case spelling, and no qualifiers, one would reasonably assume that one was speaking of the Christian God here. In the same way when one uses the word "theory" in the science based parts of this forum, without any qualifiers, one assumes that one is speaking of a scientific theory.
 
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tevans9129

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Unusual, for a creationist. You even seem reasonably civil and pleasant spoken.

I try to be as civil, polite and respectful of others as I receive from them but will confess that in a heated argument, I can also be cynical, sarcastic and some would say even rude...but I am working on it. I do not use profanity, I do not call people names and I do not make personal accusations that I cannot prove as being true. While I am confessing, I have no respect and very little patience with dishonesty.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I have a couple of questions if anyone wishes to offer a plausible answer for. Time seems to be stated in microseconds, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years and light years, therefore, if there is no sun and earth's rotation, what are those units based on?

If, there is no intelligence to measure time, how can you prove the time dimension exists?

If, the time dimension did not exist until the sixth day, what effect would that have on setting the age of the universe?

Would you like the scientific definition of time. Right now it is based upon a very specific frequency of light:

"In the International System of Units (SI), the unit of time is the second (symbol: {\displaystyle \mathrm {s} }
0dfb8fca366775bf1fb87c140c4106faf30f2e04
). It is a SI base unit, and it is currently defined as "the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom". [12] This definition is based on the operation of a caesium atomic clock."

Time in physics - Wikipedia
 
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tevans9129

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You used a scientific term in a part of the forum where science is the topic.

Sorry, I was not aware that the Genesis account had anything to do with science, at least that is what I have been told 14393 times, more or less. Furthermore, my "theory" was not about science and the word "theory" is a common English word as I quoted from MW.
 
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