My Struggle

[tulc]

were you there when all that stuff happened, Jet?

I was there, Jet. I can tell you, even 3,900,045 years ago, homosexuality existed in the sense of life-long same-sex attraction.

Hmmmm...so you're not really 22?
tulc(slowly backs out of thread)

 

[Zaac]

Hey SeekinTruth,

Jesus tells us that we shall know the truth and it shall set us free. Listen to Jesus in your heart, pray unceasingly, and try to be at peace while you are discerning.

From my own walk with God, I can tell you that homosexuality in itself is not a sin. In fact, God has brought great blessing into my life, beginning with the whole "coming out" process. Before coming out, I had accepted the shame that some well-meaning but wrong-headed/wrong-hearted Christians heaped upon me and upon all gay people. I can only tell you that, in experiencing their rejection and abusive attitudes, I found myself cast into darkness.

It was God who brought the light back in. He showed me that I was created to serve him just as I am - the way he made me. 23 years ago he brought a wonderful partner into my life, and we have lived faithfully ever since. We have a wonderful church family in which we serve. They love and support us, as we love and support them. Sexual orientation is just not an issue.

God continues to bless us, and I have countless witnesses of others who experience the very same blessings from God. It is a great testament to God's faithfulness and love. He cares for you so deeply.

I pray that you will experience this great light as well, and that you will feel uplifted, nurtured and cherished by him, just as he made you!

If you need an ear, please feel free to PM me.



CT

Seekin truth, hear what the Word of God says and don't allow yourself to fall prey to the devil's machinations.

The Bible says 17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[f]and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

Do not allow springs without water call you into something that cannot grow you in Christ.

First and foremost, lean on God for your understanding. Second let me say something that will save you a lot of grief as you walk with Christ.

TRUST THAT THE WORD THAT HE HAS GIVEN IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH JUST AS HE HAS GIVEN IT.

There are so many who do not what spirit is talking to them because they don't trust the absolute truth of God upon which the spirits are to be tested.

We ALL struggle with sin. The answer to holding that sin in check is a closer walk with Christ.

It is NOT giving into the sin and thinking that God wants us to serve Him just as we are. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Before Christ draws us unto Himself we are stained with sin and on the way to hell.

Yes we come to Him in sin, but once we get to Him, we're supposed to be reborn in Him...we're to become a new creation...and that DOES NOT entail continuing in sin.

The Bible says 15But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy. 1 Peter 1:15-16

He expects us to be sanctified into His image of holiness, and that DOES NOT entail staying the way that you are.

To say such a thing is an example of a very selfish spirit that looks to please itself and its desires more than it wants to please Christ.

Christ demands that we die to ourselves just as He died on the cross. Biblically there is nothing wrong with the attraction. But do not let anyone fool you about what God says about homosexual fornication or fornication period.

Do not allow them to appeal to those lustful desires.

God is able to carry you through. DO not open the door for someone else's habitual sin to become yours.

 

[Zaac]

My suggestion is that you hurry off this forum before you are lead to believe that God is 'ok' with men having sex with men.....He ISNT.

I would very strongly recommend that you get into Gods WHOLE word on the matter and see for yourself if there is even a single instance of men ever being ok to have sex with other men.

The poster above is simply deluding himself into thinking that God has blessed his fornications with another man.
Dont do the same to yourself, friend.

 

[Zaac]

Go ahead and get you a boyfriend. There's nothing wrong with it. I can promise you that.

18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 2 Peter 2:18-19

 

[Zaac]

Sexaul immorality, specifically rape, was only one aspect of what was wrong with Sodom, and not the heart of the matter by any means. According to the bible the sin of Sodom was inhospitality and injustice, rape being a demonstration of the nth degree of that inhospitality and injustice.

A commentative half lie and thus still a lie. God's Word doesn't say anything about inhospitality, injustice and rape being the sins of Sodom.

For sure those sins were taking place right along with every other sort of sin including homosexual and heterosexual fornication.

I see no impropriety in one member who has spent time working through a challenge offering to help a younger member facing the same.

Would you care to explain why this is not appropriate.

God does. The Bible says 13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 2 Peter 2:13-14

 

[Zaac]

Demons are not the cause of homosexuality. Please do not listen to that kind of clap trap.

Romans speaks quite clearly to the unclean spirit associated with this sin.

 

[tulc]

Romans speaks quite clearly to the unclean spirit associated with this sin.

Reference?
tulc(just curious)

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Seekin truth, hear what the Word of God says and don't allow yourself to fall prey to the devil's machinations.

The Bible says 17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[f]and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

Do not allow springs without water call you into something that cannot grow you in Christ.

First and foremost, lean on God for your understanding. Second let me say something that will save you a lot of grief as you walk with Christ.

TRUST THAT THE WORD THAT HE HAS GIVEN IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH JUST AS HE HAS GIVEN IT.

There are so many who do not what spirit is talking to them because they don't trust the absolute truth of God upon which the spirits are to be tested.

We ALL struggle with sin. The answer to holding that sin in check is a closer walk with Christ.

It is NOT giving into the sin and thinking that God wants us to serve Him just as we are. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Before Christ draws us unto Himself we are stained with sin and on the way to hell.

Yes we come to Him in sin, but once we get to Him, we're supposed to be reborn in Him...we're to become a new creation...and that DOES NOT entail continuing in sin.

The Bible says 15But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy. 1 Peter 1:15-16

He expects us to be sanctified into His image of holiness, and that DOES NOT entail staying the way that you are.

To say such a thing is an example of a very selfish spirit that looks to please itself and its desires more than it wants to please Christ.

Christ demands that we die to ourselves just as He died on the cross. Biblically there is nothing wrong with the attraction. But do not let anyone fool you about what God says about homosexual fornication or fornication period.

Do not allow them to appeal to those lustful desires.

God is able to carry you through. DO not open the door for someone else's habitual sin to become yours.

SeekinTruth,

As you can tell, there are varieties of opinion on this.

As I said in the very first line of my post: "Jesus tells us that we shall know the truth and it shall set us free. Listen to Jesus in your heart, pray unceasingly, and try to be at peace while you are discerning."

Please do not rely on an immature understanding of what God wants for your life. Keep praying and seeking God, and allow your life to develop as a direct result of that.

And know that there will be people on both sides of the argument praying for you as well.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Thanks for the comments and views everyone.

And this might only make sense to one of you, but thanks for the prayers they're working!

 

[Glass*Soul]

A commentative half lie and thus still a lie. God's Word doesn't say anything about inhospitality, injustice and rape being the sins of Sodom.

For sure those sins were taking place right along with every other sort of sin including homosexual and heterosexual fornication.

I'll go ahead and quote the scriptures supporting what I've said in full:

Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of Sodom,
listen to the law of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
"The multitude of your sacrifices--
what are they to me?" says the Lord,
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to meet with me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me
New Moons, Sabbaths, and convocations--
I cannot bear your evil assemblies,
Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts
my soul hates.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of hearing of them.
When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even if you offer many prayers,
I will not listen.
Your hands are full of blood;
wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight!
Stop doing wrong, learn to do right!
Seek justice, encourage the oppressed.
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow." ~ Isaiah 1:10-17.

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestible things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. ~ Ezekiel 16:49 & 50.

But when you come to a town and are not welcome, go into its streets and say, Even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure the kingdom of God is near. I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town. ~ Luke 10:10-12

In these three passages Sodom is mentioned in the context of a failure to provide justice (particularly in regard to widows, orphans, the poor and oppressed) and failure to welcome.

One might consider when contemplating these passages that gay men are often oppressed and discriminated against in the name of religious ritual purity. How ironic, in light of the Isaiah passage, that the story of Sodom is used to justify that oppression.

God does. The Bible says 13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 2 Peter 2:13-14

I am at a loss as to how you are applying these verses to the situation at hand. Would you care to explain?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

were you there when all that stuff happened, Jet?

I was there, Jet. I can tell you, even 3,900,045 years ago, homosexuality existed in the sense of life-long same-sex attraction.

Hello Kalith,

I think you've misunderstood my post. I am aware that homosexuals existed then. What I am saying is that society did not separate sexual orientations like it does now, and this is the reason why the bible does not directly address it. Since it was not considered a form of "identity" during those times, then the only condemnations that would arise are going to be specific.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Thanks for the comments and views everyone.

And this might only make sense to one of you, but thanks for the prayers they're working!

You're quite brave to throw the question out for this crowd (myself included ) to debate.

There are good roll models out there and there are bad roll models. It really does not have to do with anyone's gender or sexual orientation or age. The best way to tell one from the other is by asking yourself whether the things they have to teach you are nourishing or harmful. As Jesus said, "Do people pick grapes from thronbushes, or figs from thistles?" If you don't fully trust yourself to be able to tell the difference (if you're told often enough that getting your fingers stuck is good for you, it can be easy to start believing it), the best advice I can give you is to keep reading Jesus' teachings in the Gospels. Jesus was no fool. He knew grapes from thorns.

 

[Shredhead]

Has anyone checked this guy out ?
http://www.syrogers.com/media/press.php

 

[Zaac]

In these three passages Sodom is mentioned in the context of a failure to provide justice (particularly in regard to widows, orphans, the poor and oppressed) and failure to welcome.

In these passages nothing that you said was the sins of Sodom were listed. As I said, a commentative lie that the homosexual community has grabbed onto because it met their needs.

One might consider when contemplating these passages that gay men are often oppressed and discriminated against in the name of religious ritual purity. How ironic, in light of the Isaiah passage, that the story of Sodom is used to justify that oppression.

One might consider that you are confused about what Scripture says and is saying.

I am at a loss as to how you are applying these verses to the situation at hand. Would you care to explain?

You also seem to be at a loss about what the verses are saying.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I'll go ahead and quote the scriptures supporting what I've said in full:

Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of Sodom,
listen to the law of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
"The multitude of your sacrifices--
what are they to me?" says the Lord,
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to meet with me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me
New Moons, Sabbaths, and convocations--
I cannot bear your evil assemblies,
Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts
my soul hates.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of hearing of them.
When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even if you offer many prayers,
I will not listen.
Your hands are full of blood;
wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight!
Stop doing wrong, learn to do right!
Seek justice, encourage the oppressed.
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow." ~ Isaiah 1:10-17.

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestible things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. ~ Ezekiel 16:49 & 50.

But when you come to a town and are not welcome, go into its streets and say, Even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure the kingdom of God is near. I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town. ~ Luke 10:10-12

In these three passages Sodom is mentioned in the context of a failure to provide justice (particularly in regard to widows, orphans, the poor and oppressed) and failure to welcome.

One might consider when contemplating these passages that gay men are often oppressed and discriminated against in the name of religious ritual purity. How ironic, in light of the Isaiah passage, that the story of Sodom is used to justify that oppression.



I am at a loss as to how you are applying these verses to the situation at hand. Would you care to explain?

So, they were guilty of more than what we know in Genesis? I don't see why those verses undo what has happened before.

 

[tulc]

So, they were guilty of more than what we know in Genesis? I don't see why those verses undo what has happened before.

...so if he really really promises not to try and rape some angels will it be alright then?
tulc(cross his heart promises?)

 

[Zaac]

...so if he really really promises not to try and rape some angels will it be alright then?
tulc(cross his heart promises?)

Nope.

 

[tulc]

Nope.

Dang!
tulc(thought I'd just give it a shot to see if it would work)

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Has anyone checked this guy out ?
http://www.syrogers.com/media/press.php

I have. Sy Rogers is making a fortune of the "Exgay" Industry. Books, Seminars, Speaking engagements, Tapes, Cd's .He is a bright businessman. God bless America

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

...so if he really really promises not to try and rape some angels will it be alright then?
tulc(cross his heart promises?)

I've yet to see any inclination that the citizens of sodom believed them to be angels, quite the opposite actually.