My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

[LightLoveHope]

Someone raised Jesus giving His sheep a promise of eternal life and not perishing, security in never being snatched from His hand.

They assumed being one of His sheep it meant they were safe, emphasising security without price as the sign of the true gospel and indicator of the enemy who lies and sends people to hell by claiming it is so hard to find life and truth in Christ.

It then struck me, Jesus was talking to the pharisees about authority and direction. He tells them He has authority, His miracles declare it, yet they are deaf to it all. Now we are not talking directly face to face with Jesus and seeing His miracles, but the truth is still the same.

So He declares two points. They were not His sheep, so will reject all He offers because these are eternal issues of spiritual significance. Only the sheep of the Kingdom hear Him.
You could suggest very calvanist, though not intended as such. In summary, power, religious standing, belief systems would have to shift if they accepted Jesus, and because they did not believe Him, they ignored His words, because nothing was worth sacrificing to follow this man.

So Jesus says simply, if you are His sheep, you hear Him, you listen and you follow.

I had previously read this as a promise. Now I see it as a statement of fact.
So literally anyone who denies Christs words, is not His sheep.
This is not to say Christs words are easy, they are very tough, and can and do break us.
But we need breaking, we need to give up the world and accept His ways.
And some issues are softer than we at first think. But authority is always the first step to revelation. Sharing and talking things through is certainly the next few, after repentance and brokenness. If it was not so hard it would not be described as passing from death to life.

Little wonder Christs promises without brokenness is very appealing but is not the gospel.
If you want to become His sheep, listen to Him.

 

[Emli]

Someone raised Jesus giving His sheep a promise of eternal life and not perishing, security in never being snatched from His hand.

They assumed being one of His sheep it meant they were safe, emphasising security without price as the sign of the true gospel and indicator of the enemy who lies and sends people to hell by claiming it is so hard to find life and truth in Christ.

It then struck me, Jesus was talking to the pharisees about authority and direction. He tells them He has authority, His miracles declare it, yet they are deaf to it all. Now we are not talking directly face to face with Jesus and seeing His miracles, but the truth is still the same.

So He declares two points. They were not His sheep, so will reject all He offers because these are eternal issues of spiritual significance. Only the sheep of the Kingdom hear Him.
You could suggest very calvanist, though not intended as such. In summary, power, religious standing, belief systems would have to shift if they accepted Jesus, and because they did not believe Him, they ignored His words, because nothing was worth sacrificing to follow this man.

So Jesus says simply, if you are His sheep, you hear Him, you listen and you follow.

I had previously read this as a promise. Now I see it as a statement of fact.
So literally anyone who denies Christs words, is not His sheep.
This is not to say Christs words are easy, they are very tough, and can and do break us.
But we need breaking, we need to give up the world and accept His ways.
And some issues are softer than we at first think. But authority is always the first step to revelation. Sharing and talking things through is certainly the next few, after repentance and brokenness. If it was not so hard it would not be described as passing from death to life.

Little wonder Christs promises without brokenness is very appealing but is not the gospel.
If you want to become His sheep, listen to Him.

This is true. Jesus was talking to goats. And they were goats who were claiming to know God, yet they couldn't hear Him, because they didn't know Him. They only knew the god of this world, and therefore they were only following the ways of this world and their own ways, which is the broad road that leads to destruction.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Someone raised Jesus giving His sheep a promise of eternal life and not perishing, security in never being snatched from His hand.

They assumed being one of His sheep it meant they were safe, emphasising security without price as the sign of the true gospel and indicator of the enemy who lies and sends people to hell by claiming it is so hard to find life and truth in Christ.

It then struck me, Jesus was talking to the pharisees about authority and direction. He tells them He has authority, His miracles declare it, yet they are deaf to it all. Now we are not talking directly face to face with Jesus and seeing His miracles, but the truth is still the same.

So He declares two points. They were not His sheep, so will reject all He offers because these are eternal issues of spiritual significance. Only the sheep of the Kingdom hear Him.
You could suggest very calvanist, though not intended as such. In summary, power, religious standing, belief systems would have to shift if they accepted Jesus, and because they did not believe Him, they ignored His words, because nothing was worth sacrificing to follow this man.

So Jesus says simply, if you are His sheep, you hear Him, you listen and you follow.

I had previously read this as a promise. Now I see it as a statement of fact.
So literally anyone who denies Christs words, is not His sheep.
This is not to say Christs words are easy, they are very tough, and can and do break us.
But we need breaking, we need to give up the world and accept His ways.
And some issues are softer than we at first think. But authority is always the first step to revelation. Sharing and talking things through is certainly the next few, after repentance and brokenness. If it was not so hard it would not be described as passing from death to life.

Little wonder Christs promises without brokenness is very appealing but is not the gospel.
If you want to become His sheep, listen to Him.

Hebrews 11:13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.15And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

Actually, sheep are those who hate the existing state of humanity, the shallow one, that works for treasure that perishes. They desire a better state, a heavenly one. God prepared a new humanity, the New Man in Christ.

God gives them to this New Man. When they hear Him, they recognise His voice. Deep calls to deep. Those who come to Him He will in no ways turn them away. His sheep listen to His voice, because they are on the same wave length.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Hebrews 11:13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.15And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

Actually, sheep are those who hate the existing state of humanity, the shallow one, that works for treasure that perishes. They desire a better state, a heavenly one. God prepared a new humanity, the New Man in Christ.

God gives them to this New Man. When they hear Him, they recognise His voice. Deep calls to deep. Those who come to Him He will in no ways turn them away. His sheep listen to His voice, because they are on the same wave length.

Amen. As a youngster, I was always wondering at what life was and how people behaved as they do. I used to wonder and just enjoy things, and then get away with what I could.

I loved people, and lifes expression but was deeply troubled by the dark side. I got depressed in my teenage years as my family seemed to fall apart. I went looking for answers, and found in Jesus's life and words. There was relationship communication and power I did not see elsewhere. So in a sense I agree with your expression about humanity, but then I come from a traumatic situation that did not work, so I knew the world was broken already.

I suppose if you grew up in a loving safe family with support and help and you feel everything is going good, to turn to Jesus is to turn away from what appears functional. I have met some like this, though I know it is an illusion, so do not express that side of things much.

So thank you for bringing that out as well.

 

[bcbsr]

Someone raised Jesus giving His sheep a promise of eternal life and not perishing, security in never being snatched from His hand.

They assumed being one of His sheep it meant they were safe, emphasising security without price as the sign of the true gospel and indicator of the enemy who lies and sends people to hell by claiming it is so hard to find life and truth in Christ.

It then struck me, Jesus was talking to the pharisees about authority and direction. He tells them He has authority, His miracles declare it, yet they are deaf to it all. Now we are not talking directly face to face with Jesus and seeing His miracles, but the truth is still the same.

So He declares two points. They were not His sheep, so will reject all He offers because these are eternal issues of spiritual significance. Only the sheep of the Kingdom hear Him.
You could suggest very calvanist, though not intended as such. In summary, power, religious standing, belief systems would have to shift if they accepted Jesus, and because they did not believe Him, they ignored His words, because nothing was worth sacrificing to follow this man.

So Jesus says simply, if you are His sheep, you hear Him, you listen and you follow.

I had previously read this as a promise. Now I see it as a statement of fact.
So literally anyone who denies Christs words, is not His sheep.
This is not to say Christs words are easy, they are very tough, and can and do break us.
But we need breaking, we need to give up the world and accept His ways.
And some issues are softer than we at first think. But authority is always the first step to revelation. Sharing and talking things through is certainly the next few, after repentance and brokenness. If it was not so hard it would not be described as passing from death to life.

Little wonder Christs promises without brokenness is very appealing but is not the gospel.
If you want to become His sheep, listen to Him.

Yes, actually the letter of 1John elaborates on that concept. For example he says in 1John 4:6 "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. "