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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
My Scientific Method Challenge
- Thread starter AV1611VET
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Kylie
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Because the scientific method is the best tool we have for studying reality, and if there is any reality to any miracle, then that reality can be studied by the scientific method.
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Kinda like looking for Jesus' footprints on the Sea of Galilee?
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VirOptimus
A nihilist who cares.
Oh, you did a challenged thread after all.
Why? I already told you science has nothing to do with magic/god(s).
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So then why would anyone want to debate miracles from the standpoint of the scientific method?
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VirOptimus
A nihilist who cares.
Thats up to the ones doing the debating. Everything can be debated.
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durangodawood
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Really? How would one scientifically examine the miracles attributed to Jesus in the Bible? Even if they did happen, what would be available of them to study scientifically?
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Yup ... this thread's for them.
Perhaps they would like to chime in with an answer?
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I like to ... tongue in cheek ... suggest they look for Jesus' footprints on the Sea of Galilee.
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essentialsaltes
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I don't know about 'debate', but miracles that affect the physical can be studied the same way that all physical phenomena can be studied. The scientific method is a very good method for studying physical phenomena.
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jayem
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First, you'd need to define what exactly is a miracle. To me, a miracle is an event that's impossible according to the laws of nature. This rules out things commonly thought of as miraculous. Such as recovery from serious, or terminal illness with prayer. Because medical prognosis is inexact, and such outcomes are known to occur. Also, illness has so many variables that can be difficult to control. To experimentally test for a miracle, you need an end point that is very clear cut with as few confounding variables as possible. I'll focus on the prayer paradigm, and describe an experimental design to determine if a miracle can be effected by prayer:
A pan of warm water is hermetically sealed in a see-through container. One thermometer is placed in the water. Another thermometer measures the air temperature inside the box. The water temp is 15 deg above the air temp inside the box. A group of religious believers is asked to pray that the water comes to a boil. The null hypothesis is that prayer will have no effect, and the air and water temperatures will equalize. A positive result would be that solely under the influence of prayer, without any kind of trickery, application of energy from outside, or any other intervention, the water temp rises and comes to a boil, while the air in the sealed container gets colder. This would show that prayer can reverse the direction of heat flow. Which is always downhill from a region of greater heat to one of lesser. Such a result would be a reversal of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. That would definitely be a miracle.
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durangodawood
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Sure. But you made the big claim that science can be applied to study any purported miracle. I merely chose the most famous ones in the western world to test that.
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Then why would anyone want to call someone to the science table to discuss, for example, creatio ex nihilo of the earth in BC 4004 with embedded age?
(Just by way of example, you understand.)
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