My Problem With Buddhism

[Furor]

Try to picture the image or person that defines Buddhism...

A man sitting with his back to a tree, in deep meditation. The man is slowly relieving himself of his desires, his sensations, his senses... the world. He slips into a meditative trance, unaware of his surroundings. In this trance, he experiences peace and harmony beyond imagination. If he so desired, he could remain in this state until his physical body gave out and died.

My problem with this is that this man, (Buddha if you haven't already figured it out) is merely escaping the problem of suffering. When he awakes, he may be satisfied with his "meditative high" but this doesn't solve anything... it just ignores it. I suppose this is why many eastern religions support drug induced states of consciousness; it is another escape, another route that temporarily frees the being from their awareness of pain.

Now try to picture the image or person that defines Christianity...

A man tortured and nailed to a tree, embracing the problem of pain for everyone. He deals with suffering instead of escaping it.


Another problem I have with Buddhism is the concept of Nirvana. I believe that what makes us human is that we have desires, whether they be good or bad or have good or bad results. To escape human desires is to escape characteristics defining humanity itself. So in obtaining a state of Nirvana, you give up your human nature or your "flesh" nature completely. (Christianized terminology) I believe it is nearly impossible to give up the flesh nature completely and if it is even possible, then less than 5 men in history have/will have ever accomplished it. With this said, why practice a religion that teaches you to do the impossible.

Another problem I have with Buddhism..what exactly gets reincarnated? Buddhist don't believe in a soul because nothing lasts forever. So what is it exactly that is reincarnated?


I'm not trying to bash anything, but comparitively... it makes some sense to me. Perhaps I have misconceptions of Buddhism and Christianity (I was raised Christian, so I see through a glass darkly) that have produced these conclusions you have read above. I know some others out there are thinking the same things I am, so if there are any learned Buddhist about... could they please explain these things so I don't come to false conclusions. Thank you.

 

[WayMan]

I have a question for Buddhists as well.

As the ponchin (spelling) Lama, has been spirited away by the Chinese government, what happens now?

The Chinese goverment "replacement is obviously unacceptable right?

This is not the first time those in power have sought to kill Lords of the Veil, take Herod for example, nothing changes.

 

[Tariki]

Furer,

Just a few quick points...............when the Buddha was asked if he was a God, he said "no". When asked if he was a "man", he again replied "no". When asked outright just who or what he was, he replied......"I am awake". To be awake is the opposite of being in a trance. It is ourselves who are "in a trance".........of grasping, self-deception and ignorance.........(at least, according to Buddhism!)

The Buddhist teaching - Mahayana - is that "samsara" - this world of birth and death and suffering - IS "nirvana". This is the complete opposite of any form of escapism or "transcendance" of this world and its suffering.

I am not really the one to ask concerning "reincarnation" - or "rebirth" as I have no interest in it. FOR ME it belongs to the "metaphysics of hope and fear" that is the opposite - FOR ME - of the means of understanding. I would just say that just as an acorn becomes a seed becomes a sapling becomes o fully grown tree becomes decayed becomes coal.........That an oak tree, however real and solid it may be, is in fact a "process" rather than an "object" in and of itself..............so are we...........process, not "being". Rebirth is an ongoing becoming...........a simile often given is that of a flame being passed on.............is it a different flame each time, or the same?

Once again, perhaps I am not the one to answer your queries. I am a Pure Land Buddhist, the Buddhism of "Other Power"..........rather than "self power".

Anyway, a little story from the Buddhist tradition........

Master Shaku Soen liked to take an evening stroll through a nearby village. One day he heard loud lamentations from a house and, on entering quietly, realized that the householder had died and the family and neighbours were crying. He sat down and cried with them. An old man noticed him and remarked, rather shaken on seeing the famous master crying with them:"I would have thought that you at least were beyond such things." "But it is this which puts me beyond it," replied the master with a sob.

This is "the end of suffering" - for the Bodhisattva. At the heart of all religion is paradox...........which is why all say in their own way "come and see (for oneself)". At some point the questions and investigations have to stop, and we have to find for ourselves, by practicing our faith.

Please ask anything else you consider relevant.................(although perhaps after hearing this, you may not think it worth the effort!)

 

[Arikay]

The thing I see, is that you can't really compare Siddartha and Jesus, as their are viewed slightly different.

Although im sure the Buddhists can problem answer this better, ill take a shot at it.

"My problem with this is that this man, (Buddha if you haven't already figured it out) is merely escaping the problem of suffering. When he awakes, he may be satisfied with his "meditative high" but this doesn't solve anything..."

Or does it. One could say that the world around us is a reflection of ourselves and we are a reflection of the world. To work on changing one, can change the other. Buddha wasn't satisfied with sitting at home with this "high" but went out to teach others about it, and about many of his ideas.


"it is another escape, another route that temporarily frees the being from their awareness of pain."

Ah, but what if it was not a temporary escape?


"A man tortured and nailed to a tree, embracing the problem of pain for everyone. He deals with suffering instead of escaping it."

This is one of the problems. We need to seperate the men from the teachings. In buddhism, one can not be free of pain without trying, you must take an active role to free yourself, and thus you are addressing the problem in a fashion. However, in christianity, Jesus may have embraced the problem, but his teachings say that you do not need to embrace the problem, because believing is enough.

So, the men and the teachings are the opposite when dealing with whether they address the problems.


"I believe that what makes us human is that we have desires, whether they be good or bad or have good or bad results."

I agree with you. Of course, im not buddhist.


"Buddhist don't believe in a soul because nothing lasts forever"

Who said a soul must last forever?


Hopefully some of that helps, but as I said, im not Buddhist. But I like many of his teachings.

Try to picture the image or person that defines Buddhism...

A man sitting with his back to a tree, in deep meditation. The man is slowly relieving himself of his desires, his sensations, his senses... the world. He slips into a meditative trance, unaware of his surroundings. In this trance, he experiences peace and harmony beyond imagination. If he so desired, he could remain in this state until his physical body gave out and died.

My problem with this is that this man, (Buddha if you haven't already figured it out) is merely escaping the problem of suffering. When he awakes, he may be satisfied with his "meditative high" but this doesn't solve anything... it just ignores it. I suppose this is why many eastern religions support drug induced states of consciousness; it is another escape, another route that temporarily frees the being from their awareness of pain.

Now try to picture the image or person that defines Christianity...

A man tortured and nailed to a tree, embracing the problem of pain for everyone. He deals with suffering instead of escaping it.


Another problem I have with Buddhism is the concept of Nirvana. I believe that what makes us human is that we have desires, whether they be good or bad or have good or bad results. To escape human desires is to escape characteristics defining humanity itself. So in obtaining a state of Nirvana, you give up your human nature or your "flesh" nature completely. (Christianized terminology) I believe it is nearly impossible to give up the flesh nature completely and if it is even possible, then less than 5 men in history have/will have ever accomplished it. With this said, why practice a religion that teaches you to do the impossible.

Another problem I have with Buddhism..what exactly gets reincarnated? Buddhist don't believe in a soul because nothing lasts forever. So what is it exactly that is reincarnated?


I'm not trying to bash anything, but comparitively... it makes some sense to me. Perhaps I have misconceptions of Buddhism and Christianity (I was raised Christian, so I see through a glass darkly) that have produced these conclusions you have read above. I know some others out there are thinking the same things I am, so if there are any learned Buddhist about... could they please explain these things so I don't come to false conclusions. Thank you.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste furor,

perhaps, i can answer you questions just a bit... it may produce more questions, but that's the nature of it

Try to picture the image or person that defines Buddhism...

i suppose i'd have to start right here if by define you mean to say, the most common image, then i'll agree. if by define you mean to say that, by observing this individual we can divine all there is to know about Buddhism, i'd disagree.

A man sitting with his back to a tree, in deep meditation. The man is slowly relieving himself of his desires, his sensations, his senses... the world. He slips into a meditative trance, unaware of his surroundings. In this trance, he experiences peace and harmony beyond imagination. If he so desired, he could remain in this state until his physical body gave out and died.

My problem with this is that this man, (Buddha if you haven't already figured it out) is merely escaping the problem of suffering. When he awakes, he may be satisfied with his "meditative high" but this doesn't solve anything... it just ignores it. I suppose this is why many eastern religions support drug induced states of consciousness; it is another escape, another route that temporarily frees the being from their awareness of pain.

i'm not sure where you got this description of his awakening, however, this is not something that i've heard.

one of the exact teachings is not to become too absorbed in the meditive experience... it should be noted here that there are several types of meditation.. mainly insight and wisdom. in any event.. you are right.. if a meditive high were all that was engendered from the experience... but it wasn't; nor is it for us either. which, specific, eastern religions support a drug induced state of consciousness? if you have some links or references, i'd be happy to see them.

Now try to picture the image or person that defines Christianity...

A man tortured and nailed to a tree, embracing the problem of pain for everyone. He deals with suffering instead of escaping it.

you do know <i> why </i> the Buddha went to the effort, don't you? it was for that very same reason... to provide a way out of the pain for all sentient beings.. not just humans.

Another problem I have with Buddhism is the concept of Nirvana. I believe that what makes us human is that we have desires, whether they be good or bad or have good or bad results. To escape human desires is to escape characteristics defining humanity itself. So in obtaining a state of Nirvana, you give up your human nature or your "flesh" nature completely. (Christianized terminology) I believe it is nearly impossible to give up the flesh nature completely and if it is even possible, then less than 5 men in history have/will have ever accomplished it. With this said, why practice a religion that teaches you to do the impossible.

perhaps the problem is you have a "concept" of something that is non-conceptual? Buddhism does not teach anything so fatalistic... desire is the translated word and it really misses the mark. we stive to lessen our attachment and we use desire as a tool for that, though we must be careful not to become too attached to that either

here's the thing.... it's not impossible. if it were, the Buddha could not have done it. neither could have Ananda, Shariputra and so forth. it is, without question, not easy. some people prefer the easy route, some people prefer the more difficult route.. it's all about aptitude and capacity.

Another problem I have with Buddhism..what exactly gets reincarnated? Buddhist don't believe in a soul because nothing lasts forever. So what is it exactly that is reincarnated?

yikes! the tough qustions without a foundation that's ok.. i can give you a brief enough answer. note clearly, however, that without a proper understanding of shunyata and anatman, some of this will not make sense. briefly, in my tradition (Vajrayana) there are 5 increasingly subtle levels of consciousness. what is reborn (not reincarnated) is the Alaya consciousness. this is the "storehouse" consciousness where the imprints of our volitional actions are and it is this that is reborn. Tariki used the very clear analogy of the candle and the flame.

light the candle. use the candle to light another. is the flame on the first candle the same as on the second or are they different?

i would say, however, that one really gains knowledge from doing the work themselves, to wit:
http://www.yakrider.com/
http://www.buddhanet.net/index.html

 

[vajradhara]

I have a question for Buddhists as well.

As the ponchin (spelling) Lama, has been spirited away by the Chinese government, what happens now?

The Chinese goverment "replacement is obviously unacceptable right?

This is not the first time those in power have sought to kill Lords of the Veil, take Herod for example, nothing changes.

Namaste wayman,

the Panchen Lama is really only a concern for us Tibetan types most of the other schools of Buddhism are unaware of whom this individual is and what role he or she plays, as it's confined to the Vajrayana.

yes, the chinese replacement is, obviously, unacceptable... on many, many levels.

the primary one is that the kidnapped the real Panchen Lama and put a replacement in his spot. as the Panchen Lama is a Tulku, he cannot simply be replaced.

it's really quite a trying time.

you can visit these sites for more detailed information:

http://www.savetibet.org/Tibet/TibetMain.cfm

http://www.tibet.com/

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

My understanding of buddhism and meditation is not to escape, but to deal with your problems. Even simple meditation can help one relax and think more clearly. Part of the satisfaction comes from understanding, which is what buddhism is about.


Neat thing is that meditation is proven to affect the way your brain works. Buddhists are also more likely to be in a good mood than the average person.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3047291.stm

 

[WayMan]

vajradhara

Thanks for the links, I will take a look.

I have my own reasons for thinking why the replacement is unacceptabe, these may differ from yours, but I am not sure at this time.
I may get back to you later with more questions if that's OK.

 

[vajradhara]

vajradhara

Thanks for the links, I will take a look.

I have my own reasons for thinking why the replacement is unacceptabe, these may differ from yours, but I am not sure at this time.
I may get back to you later with more questions if that's OK.

Namaste wayman,

of course.... and i'm pretty sure that your reason would differ from mine.. i'm not detecting much Tibetan in you

in any event... i'll happily answer what i can

 

[WayMan]

Hi vajradhara

I just found this at the link below.

"Some Tibetan tulkus know in advance where they will be reborn; therefore, they compose verses that direct their students to certain areas to search for their subsequesnt reincarnations."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6488/Erain04.html

The above comes as no surprise to me, and I would say that I think our reasons do not differ vastly.

As a follower of the Way I have great respect for Buddha, he is mentioned many times is ancient literature of Way descent. He is what we in the Way call a "High Lord of the Veil" It can be calculated when a Lord of the Veil will be born, this is rare enough, and is a special thing, but the comming of a High Lord of the Veil such as Buddha is an incredibly important.

To us he is known as the Fifth High Lord Of The Veil.

Did you know that Buddha was a member of the Nazarenes, the Brotherhood Of Light ?

There is no difference between the predicting of the birth of Jesus ( the sixth) and the predicting of the birth of Buddha. All the High Lords of the Veil are sought out by the Nazarenes wherever they are.

 

[WayMan]

A little exerpt about Buddha from the Book of Man.

"Men had learned to believe that which suited them and turned their backs upon reason and the certainty of knowledge. and thus was man still further ******.
there was a High lord born in the lands of those with almond eyes and he was nearly lost for he was a soldier as was his father and he was named Buddha amongst his names in that tongue. As with all bearers of the veil he was always much troubled by that which he saw and that which he felt. He like all the rest understood nothing of men and could not calculate their ways . Buddha did not know of the veil for the truth of it was not within his land and there was great ignorance of it. This was why none did try to kill his mother before his birth as it is with all caulbearers since the knowledge of the caul and their greatness was known. He abandoned his wife and left his home for he was much troubled and there was none that could guide him. He searched for reason of his mind and that which he felt for he was sorely confused. He tried to understand that which was born within hem and he could not. Without his knowing a member of the brotherhood of Nazarenes watched him at all time as had it so been since his sign was first seen in the sky. As his sign grew, brothers journeyed to the place that he would be born and they were there. Because they were strangers they were not allowed to approach the child so he was not anointed as a King at that time as he should have been. So they watched and they waited until they saw a safe opportunity. They knew that he would not receive them until his torment was great and his mind would be receptive to reason and the hallowed knowledge. They followed him in his footsteps wherever his feet did tread. One day he was tired and was much disturbed and he sat to rest beneath a tree in it’s shade. One of the brothers who had been following him approached and spoke onto him and asked why was he troubled. He was receptive to them and they were overjoyed. He listened to them and they talked to him for many days without rest of sleep. He did not tire and he gained reason and he gained knowledge of that which he was and he was content with it. They took him with them and so began his education . Again he did go amongs his people and they were much amazed by his sayings and he was full of the light of his knowledge and this did he do, for the rest of his life.
He gained followers and he taught them but "

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I'm not trying to bash anything, but comparitively... it makes some sense to me. Perhaps I have misconceptions of Buddhism and Christianity that have produced these conclusions you have read above... if there are any learned Buddhist about... could they please explain these things so I don't come to false conclusions. Thank you.

What sect of buddhism are you referring to? Do you think that buddhism is one theology? It's like Christianity in it's many different theologies.

All I can say as someone who's practiced Nicheren Shoshu Buddhism, is that your conclusions are not anything that I can identify with. The practice of NSAB is to seek enlightenment or "Buddahhood" aka understanding of God the universe and our place in it while living in this plane of existance aka life. To evolve mentally, physically and spiritually to the highest possible level.

The trance state that you discribe could be equated with the state a person can acheive when they pray for an extended period of time. I know that a Christian might object to this similarity being drawn, but nevertheless....as someone who's done both, I can attest to it being so.

Reincarnation is not a strictly buddhist notion, it's in the Bible. Although it's not something that most modern pastors like to preach on for some unknown reason. Perhaps it's because it would contradict other passages that seem to be more important to the Christian agenda.

editted because of spelling error.

 

[WayMan]

"It's like Christianity in it's many different theologies."

And why would that be Wisdom Seeker ?

 

[desper84unity]

When I was a teenager I prayed about the way to go. I asked God for guidance. At the time I was reading widely. I practiced some meditation. But mostly it came to one decision which way to go.

The guidance I distinctly received was that all BUT Christ's Way is life long search, and a final disappointment. So I chose Christ as the Way. I have never regretted it. And it is getting better all the time.

As far as practicing Tibetan Buddhists, I have always thought if they turned to Jesus Christ they would make great Christians, just because they are willing to devote so much time in prayer.

My main impression of Buddhism through a friend who is a devout Tibetan Buddhist is that they are INVESTED in that religion, they are AFRAID to leave it. They BLOCK the hearing of the Good News of Jesus Christ. They are BLIND to their predicament. My friend the devout Tibetan Buddhist is majorly STRESSED about dying, and full of worry that his soul will seperate from his body correctly. He constantly thinks about it. He has reason to worry, for one thing it's hard to be sure you will have a high Lama available if a problem should arise during and after death. THAT IS NO WAY TO LIVE.

Christ offers the sure way to deal with the uncertainties of death, and you can have that assurance BEFORE you die!

Don't get the idea I despise Tibetans, I think they're exceptional people, and I know God deeply cares about them.

In Christ's name.
--desp

 

[vajradhara]

When I was a teenager I prayed about the way to go. I asked God for guidance. At the time I was reading widely. I practiced some meditation. But mostly it came to one decision which way to go.

The guidance I distinctly received was that all BUT Christ's Way is life long search, and a final disappointment. So I chose Christ as the Way. I have never regretted it. And it is getting better all the time.

As far as practicing Tibetan Buddhists, I have always thought if they turned to Jesus Christ they would make great Christians, just because they are willing to devote so much time in prayer.

My main impression of Buddhism through a friend who is a devout Tibetan Buddhist is that they are INVESTED in that religion, they are AFRAID to leave it. They BLOCK the hearing of the Good News of Jesus Christ. They are BLIND to their predicament. My friend the devout Tibetan Buddhist is majorly STRESSED about dying, and full of worry that his soul will seperate from his body correctly. He constantly thinks about it. He has reason to worry, for one thing it's hard to be sure you will have a high Lama available if a problem should arise during and after death. THAT IS NO WAY TO LIVE.

Christ offers the sure way to deal with the uncertainties of death, and you can have that assurance BEFORE you die!

Don't get the idea I despise Tibetans, I think they're exceptional people, and I know God deeply cares about them.

In Christ's name.
--desp

Namaste,

it would not be wise to judge a tradition by one adherent i practice the Vajrayana, which is what is practice in Tibet, and i have no such fears or compulsions. Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana) has 4 extant schools and they are different from each other. do you know which school your friend practices?

actually, the Lama does not need to be present to perform the Powha, should it be required.

the reason that they, meanging Vajrayana Buddhists, don't flock to Christianity is because Christianity posits an eternally existing self, or soul, which is something that is expressly exposed as errorenous by the Buddha in the First Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.

 

[vajradhara]

Hi vajradhara

I just found this at the link below.

"Some Tibetan tulkus know in advance where they will be reborn; therefore, they compose verses that direct their students to certain areas to search for their subsequesnt reincarnations."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6488/Erain04.html

The above comes as no surprise to me, and I would say that I think our reasons do not differ vastly.

As a follower of the Way I have great respect for Buddha, he is mentioned many times is ancient literature of Way descent. He is what we in the Way call a "High Lord of the Veil" It can be calculated when a Lord of the Veil will be born, this is rare enough, and is a special thing, but the comming of a High Lord of the Veil such as Buddha is an incredibly important.

To us he is known as the Fifth High Lord Of The Veil.

Did you know that Buddha was a member of the Nazarenes, the Brotherhood Of Light ?

There is no difference between the predicting of the birth of Jesus ( the sixth) and the predicting of the birth of Buddha. All the High Lords of the Veil are sought out by the Nazarenes wherever they are.

Namaste wayman,

i'll presume that this is the post that you were referring to in the other thread...

i'm curious what your book purports to say about the next Buddha to be? does it predict when Maitreya will be born?

in any event... yes, that is a primary reason. the other reasons are due to the position of the Panchen Lama within the hierarchy of Tibetan Buddhism. he is the second highest spiritual authority and, prior to the reformation of the government, he was the second highest political authority as well.

in exile, the Dalai Lama (the highest spiritual and politcal authority) changed the government to be a democratically elected one, not a theocracy. much of this, however, is moot due to the occupation of the chinese.

i'm unclear of the usage of the term Way. in my knowledge the Way refers to a specific tradtion, namely the Tao.. which means, of course, The Way. are you a Taoist? if so, what school of Taoism do you practice?

from your postings, however, i would presume that is not the case.

 

[WayMan]

Namaste wayman,

i'll presume that this is the post that you were referring to in the other thread...

i'm curious what your book purports to say about the next Buddha to be? does it predict when Maitreya will be born?

in any event... yes, that is a primary reason. the other reasons are due to the position of the Panchen Lama within the hierarchy of Tibetan Buddhism. he is the second highest spiritual authority and, prior to the reformation of the government, he was the second highest political authority as well.

in exile, the Dalai Lama (the highest spiritual and politcal authority) changed the government to be a democratically elected one, not a theocracy. much of this, however, is moot due to the occupation of the chinese.

i'm unclear of the usage of the term Way. in my knowledge the Way refers to a specific tradtion, namely the Tao.. which means, of course, The Way. are you a Taoist? if so, what school of Taoism do you practice?

from your postings, however, i would presume that is not the case.

Yes this is the post I was refering to.

The next "Buddha " to be has already been born, he was predicted in the same manner as Buddha, and was under threat from the moment of his birth just like the Panchen Lama. In his time he was Servant and Master Commander of the Nazarenes and the Way, he is known amongst other names as Jesus.

I did not know that the word Tao means The Way, this is very interesting. The Way goes back a a vast distance in time, It is at least 10,000 years old and probably longer. It is not a religion, but it is where all religions have come from, it is a shame that they have lost their Way. .

People of the Way have no beliefs, and that includes reincarnation, but we recognise that our DNA is past on through our children, they are our everlasting life. Maybe this is a kind of reincarnation, and maybe not, but it is a provable fact and requires no belief.

Buddha is mentioned in the the "Emerald Tablet V11" this was written many thousands of years before his birth. There were some very clever people about in times gone by.

 

[vajradhara]

Yes this is the post I was refering to.

The next "Buddha " to be has already been born, he was predicted in the same manner as Buddha, and was under threat from the moment of his birth just like the Panchen Lama. In his time he was Servant and Master Commander of the Nazarenes and the Way, he is known amongst other names as Jesus.

I did not know that the word Tao means The Way, this is very interesting. The Way goes back a a vast distance in time, It is at least 10,000 years old and probably longer. It is not a religion, but it is where all religions have come from, it is a shame that they have lost their Way. .

People of the Way have no beliefs, and that includes reincarnation, but we recognise that our DNA is past on through our children, they are our everlasting life. Maybe this is a kind of reincarnation, and maybe not, but it is a provable fact and requires no belief.

Buddha is mentioned in the the "Emerald Tablet V11" this was written many thousands of years before his birth. There were some very clever people about in times gone by.

Namaste wayman,

er... the next buddha hasn't been born yet if Maitreya had.. we wouldn't be talking about it.. since Maitreya is not due till the next world age when the Dharma has disappeared from the world. Maitreya will come and expound the Dharma once more.... and there will be 12 more after him. In essence, since the Dharma is still present (even though this is a age of decline) Maitreya has not needed to come.

another reason that we know that Maitreya is not arrived is that there is not a World Ruling King in India and the life span of humanity is not 80,000 years, both of which are part of the prophecy.

indeed.. reincarnation could be a DNA type of thing... of course, Buddhists believe in rebirth rather than reincarnation.. a subtle difference to be sure, but a difference nonetheless.

oh yes... the Tao Te Ching (as the primary text on this) is translated as The Way, It's Virtue and Power. the text was complied around the same time as the Buddha was running around.. though there are some scholarly disputes about the identity of Lao Tzu and so forth.. however, that should not detract from your exploration of this subject.

i believe that Arikay is a Taoist, though i'm not sure which school that he practices. i can offer some information, though my studies are restricted to a particular school known as Complete Reality, the Northern school as opposed to the Southern school.

 

[WayMan]

Namaste wayman,

er... the next buddha hasn't been born yet if Maitreya had.. we wouldn't be talking about it.. since Maitreya is not due till the next world age when the Dharma has disappeared from the world. Maitreya will come and expound the Dharma once more.... and there will be 12 more after him. In essence, since the Dharma is still present (even though this is a age of decline) Maitreya has not needed to come.

another reason that we know that Maitreya is not arrived is that there is not a World Ruling King in India and the life span of humanity is not 80,000 years, both of which are part of the prophecy.

indeed.. reincarnation could be a DNA type of thing... of course, Buddhists believe in rebirth rather than reincarnation.. a subtle difference to be sure, but a difference nonetheless.

oh yes... the Tao Te Ching (as the primary text on this) is translated as The Way, It's Virtue and Power. the text was complied around the same time as the Buddha was running around.. though there are some scholarly disputes about the identity of Lao Tzu and so forth.. however, that should not detract from your exploration of this subject.

i believe that Arikay is a Taoist, though i'm not sure which school that he practices. i can offer some information, though my studies are restricted to a particular school known as Complete Reality, the Northern school as opposed to the Southern school.

The problem with all the religions as I see it is that they all require belief./faith of some description. In other words abandoning reality for what is most usually whacky cloud cuckoo land stuff. I would say( from my limited Knowledge of Bhuddhism, that it probably the least whacky of the major religions, but it still requires belief.

The problem I have with belief, is that belief is only possible in the absense of Knowledge, in other words belief would not be possible if you knew it was the truth. Following something that you do not know to be true, must at the very least be extreemly risky, and could be catastrophic at worst, and if you don't know that it's true, then what's the point ?

According to the " prophecy of the First to Come" buddha is the fifth of the high Lords Of The Veil, this was written long before Bhuddha arrived on the scene, but not befare the calculation of his Sign. Again belief is not needed, it is a calculation, useing the same formula that heralded the birth of the Panchen Lama.

I myself asked Arikay if he followed a particular doctrine, stateing that his mind did not seem to be "bound with the chains of belief" but he did not answer my question.


"Complete Reality," is what the Way is about, that is why we revere Knowledge , Truth , Reason , and Logic. These are the four cornerstones of the Way. There is certainly a strong link with Bhuddism, leaving the belief issue asside.

 

[Tariki]

Wayman,

In my experience Buddhism can be extremely "whacky" at times..................it often appears less "whacky" because historically it was the Theravada version that first became known in the West. Theravada regards the Buddha as a teacher, not a saviour, who left behind a teaching to be followed..........to the heartwood of the dharma, the "end of suffering"....nirvana. People in the West, to a certain extent, found what they wanted to find.............a rational system, rather than a "belief". Yet even the Theravada scriptures contain great dollops of whackiness...............wind-devas, who according to the Buddha, cause the wind to blow.........and various other devas who cause various kinds of weather.........This is the word of the Buddha from the text of the Samyutta Nikaya, from the Pali Canon, the official scripture of Theravada...."There are what are called wind-cloud devas. When it occurs to them, "let us revel in our own kind of delight", in accordnace with their wish, it becomes windy. This is the cause and reason why it becomes windy" Well, so now we know! When the Mahayana scriptures come into their own, whackiness takes of like a rocket.................

Yet the scriptures also contain the words....."do not be satisfied with scripture".............and ask us to put things to the test of our personal experience. The dharma says "come and see for yourself"............that it can be "verified by the wise".

I can only speak as I now understand after 14 years of reading and studying Buddhist scriptures.................belief is seen as a product of desire. Our minds, unable to experience true reality because of ignorance, will grasp at the beliefs that most satisfy our wishes. Buddhism therefore does not begin with belief as such but with "suffering"..........which is easily verifiable!.............and asks us to "understand" it. Not to understand it in accordance with a system of belief, but by meditative techniques developed over the years that train the mind to see the cause............in part, the grasping of our minds at what gives us "pleasure"....the recoil of our minds from what gives us "pain"..............and the boredom of our minds by anything in between! And our constant clinging to such identifications......as a "self" that "has" these experiences.......

These things are seen, not "believed"................

The Dharma as such is natural truth, and needs no revelation. It is the 84000 gates to liberation that can follow from the intitial insights given by "insight" and wisdom................wisdom = the mind/heart, thirsting for emancipation, seeing direct into the heart of reality.

My own dharma gate now embraces ideas and concepts that would be classed as "beliefs"................I am a Pure Land Buddhist. This is my path that I would never insist should be the path of another. This is where the rain of the dharma has led me. We are each our own "dharma gate"........precious individuals living an unrepeatable life.

Anyway, this is just my take, from my experience. I would also just say that in a sense I am of the Pascal mode of thought.............."the last act of reason is to acknowledge all that lies beyond it"

Derek