My priest announced my parish is starting the alpha program

[Gnarwhal]

I don't think Alpha will be a disaster for you. It all depends actually on the people who will be leading the groups. If they are solid Catholics, they can steer the discussions in a very good way. If they are themselves uncatechized they will steer the discussions to the Alpha default, which at best is C.S.Lewis' 'Mere Christianity' and at worst is meh. This too shall pass.

What seems to work the best is an adoration chapel. Even if it isn't perpetual. See what you can do if you don't yet have one. We have for 25 years now and it has been ... miraculous. Alpha will come and go. Don't get too bent out of shape over it. Maybe you should offer to be a group leader so you can do some good around it rather than just complain about it. But do see if you can have adoration. The hours in front of Jesus are the best in my life.

Thanks for the encouragement. I did see later on that there is an "Alpha for Catholics". I mean, I'm still skeptical but if it's been vetted then I guess that's okay. And yes, we do have an adoration chapel, it's slowing shrinking from 24-7, I think last I heard is it's 24/5 but it's available to anyone if they contact the parish office for the key code. Hopefully whoever facilitates the course directs people to adoration as well.

 

[charsan]

It's an "introductory course" to Christianity originally created by evangelical Anglicans and mostly used by evangelicals/non-denominational folk.

A good reason not to use such a thing

 

[zippy2006]

I think the Alpha program is good. I know a priest who uses it and skips certain lessons such as Anglican ecclesiology. I wouldn't compare Alpha or Anglicanism to non-denominationalism. I don't think that's accurate.

If the Catholic Church had something comparable to Alpha that would be preferable, but I don't think we do, and lots of Catholics are closer to Anglicanism than to Catholicism, so why not catechize them and draw them closer with an Anglican program?

 

[pdudgeon]

I think the Alpha program is good. I know a priest who uses it and skips certain lessons such as Anglican ecclesiology. I wouldn't compare Alpha or Anglicanism to non-denominationalism. I don't think that's accurate.

If the Catholic Church had something comparable to Alpha that would be preferable, but I don't think we do, and lots of Catholics are closer to Anglicanism than to Catholicism, so why not catechize them and draw them closer with an Anglican program?

Why? It all depends on what they are really looking for.

From Protestantism to Anglican is an easier step to make than from some other starting points.
But from what I've seen for many converts, Anglicanism is a good entry point along the journey, but often times it's not a final destination.
Just sayin'.

It was for me any ways, and a long journey it was indeed!

 

[zippy2006]

Why? It all depends on what they are really looking for.

From Protestantism to Anglican is an easier step to make than from some other starting points.
But from what I've seen for many converts, Anglicanism is a good entry point along the journey, but often times it's not a final destination.
Just sayin'.

It was for me any ways, and a long journey it was indeed!

Right. I never said Alpha moves Christians to the final destination. It's a tool to help people along the way.

Speaking generally--not to you in particular--the problem with people like Vorris is that they don't understand pedagogy and JPII's "law of gradualism." Vorris is probably mad that Protestants are printing millions of Protestant Bibles. Yet why is that a problem? Isn't printing and disseminating the word of God a good thing? Even if it isn't the complete word of God? "The one who is not against us is for us" (Mark 9:40).

 

[redleghunter]

It's an "introductory course" to Christianity originally created by evangelical Anglicans and mostly used by evangelicals/non-denominational folk.

Never heard of it. Must be Pentecostal in nature.

 

[redleghunter]

I’ve noticed that Catholics are not monolithic in some of their faith approaches. I’ve been told on the things not dogmatic there is some freedom. Is this one area?

I noticed with my Catholic family interpreting end times prophecy has a wide variation of views. Came across this one on the web (Third Eagle is Catholic and predicts Trump will convert to the Catholic Church)

 

[Gnarwhal]

I think the Alpha program is good. I know a priest who uses it and skips certain lessons such as Anglican ecclesiology. I wouldn't compare Alpha or Anglicanism to non-denominationalism. I don't think that's accurate.

If the Catholic Church had something comparable to Alpha that would be preferable, but I don't think we do, and lots of Catholics are closer to Anglicanism than to Catholicism, so why not catechize them and draw them closer with an Anglican program?

See I thought I heard that Alpha originated from low church/broad church Anglicanism, which is essentially evangelical in a lot of ways. If it had come out of high church Anglicanism than I might be slightly less leery of it, if for no other reason than I would think it had a positive view of tradition.

As far as Catholic having something comparable, I feel like it does--or should, given the vast amount of teaching resources it's produced over the past two millennia.

Never heard of it. Must be Pentecostal in nature.

It does apparently have a charismatic leaning, so you're basically right.

I’ve noticed that Catholics are not monolithic in some of their faith approaches. I’ve been told on the things not dogmatic there is some freedom. Is this one area?

I noticed with my Catholic family interpreting end times prophecy has a wide variation of views. Came across this one on the web (Third Eagle is Catholic and predicts Trump will convert to the Catholic Church)

In terms of faith and morals, Catholics are expected to conform to the teachings of Christ and His Church. So those who profess the faith and yet espouse beliefs and ideologies that are incongruous with what the Church teaches have effectively excommunicated themselves, but too many priests and bishops are soft on a lot of issues and so they don't refuse those people the Eucharist.

As far as liturgical practices, there are various approaches for better and for worse. There are the western liturgies like the novus ordo, Tridentine Latin Mass, the Anglican Use (utilized by former Anglican/Episcopal parishes who have collectively migrated into the Catholic Church), and then there is essentially a charismatic variation of the novus ordo. Then there are various Eastern Liturgies, which in many ways are like the various Eastern Orthodox Churches, only they've been approved as being theologically in line with the Catholic Church. So we have Melkite, Maronite, Greek and other Byzantine liturgies in Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[Markie Boy]

I must say, I came to Catholicism from a very conservative Baptist church. It almost feels like a lateral move. Both have some good truth, and both have some poor teaching. As I think Peter Kreeft said "Why should they trade one fullness for another?"

My Catholic parish is actually less united than the Baptist church I experienced. I think God cares more about what we actually do than what's on the paper documents, according to the parable of the Two Sons.

I can find more large families in the Baptist faith here than Catholicism's 1-2 kid average - so much for the contraceptive teaching.

I have a relative that is an unbaptized person in need of evangelization. I actually believe it would be better for my brother in his good Baptist church to do the evangelizing into baptism than for them to come to the local Catholic parish. There is a good chance they'll actually learn and be baptized there. In our local Catholic parish I think they'd be done and drop out in a few weeks of RCIA due to boring, and liberal environmental, social justice stuff.

Point well made - Catholics do a horrible job of trying to be protestant - just look at our OCP music. I'd much prefer contemporary Christian music actually - neither is fit for Mass, at least the later is good.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I must say, I came to Catholicism from a very conservative Baptist church. It almost feels like a lateral move. Both have some good truth, and both have some poor teaching. As I think Peter Kreeft said "Why should they trade one fullness for another?"

My Catholic parish is actually less united than the Baptist church I experienced. I think God cares more about what we actually do than what's on the paper documents, according to the parable of the Two Sons.

I can find more large families in the Baptist faith here than Catholicism's 1-2 kid average - so much for the contraceptive teaching.

I have a relative that is an unbaptized person in need of evangelization. I actually believe it would be better for my brother in his good Baptist church to do the evangelizing into baptism than for them to come to the local Catholic parish. There is a good chance they'll actually learn and be baptized there. In our local Catholic parish I think they'd be done and drop out in a few weeks of RCIA due to boring, and liberal environmental, social justice stuff.

Point well made - Catholics do a horrible job of trying to be protestant - just look at our OCP music. I'd much prefer contemporary Christian music actually - neither is fit for Mass, at least the later is good.

That's the problem, Catholics should be proud of their ecclesial heritage, we shouldn't be trying to emulate what protestants are doing.

Besides, and this is a little ironic, all of the protestant stuff I've seen the Church try to copy are things that worked 25+ years ago. Whoever we're copying has most likely withered into nothingness, given how so many protestant churches have fallen apart in the past decade or two. And yet we have full access to the timelessness of our own Church.

We need to remember who we are, in form and in function. We have a beautiful and glorious 2,000 year old heritage that is readily available to us but we'd rather take the Ford Pinto instead of the Bugatti.

We'll figure it out eventually. Of that much I'm certain. Maybe not in my lifetime, but in the grand scheme of Church history, this disruption over the last half century or so is a drop in the bucket and I have faith that the Church will correct her course, through God's love and mercy.

 

[zippy2006]

See I thought I heard that Alpha originated from low church/broad church Anglicanism, which is essentially evangelical in a lot of ways. If it had come out of high church Anglicanism than I might be slightly less leery of it, if for no other reason than I would think it had a positive view of tradition.

You're right in a lot of ways, but comparing them to Baptists/non-denoms is a little strange.

Alpha isn't right for every parish, I will give you that. Some parishes are 'beyond' it. I like Alpha because I like natural theology, but there is always a danger of eclipsing divine faith.

As far as Catholic having something comparable, I feel like it does--or should, given the vast amount of teaching resources it's produced over the past two millennia.

Bishop Barron is in that wheelhouse. Maybe he is working on something like Alpha.

That's the problem, Catholics should be proud of their ecclesial heritage, we shouldn't be trying to emulate what protestants are doing.

I would like to see us emulate Protestants insofar as we regain a deep reverence and respect for Holy Scripture.

 

[zippy2006]

I’ve noticed that Catholics are not monolithic in some of their faith approaches. I’ve been told on the things not dogmatic there is some freedom. Is this one area?

There is legitimate diversity, and this flows from Catholics' high view of conscience and the simple fact of human diversity. Differing on whether the Alpha program is useful is certainly an area where legitimate disagreement occurs.

 

[Rhamiel]

In the words of C. S. Lewis, there is such a thing as "mere Christianity."

Have you read that book, btw?

I read the book... or at least most of it? About 17 years ago when I was in my teens

I think the idea of “mere Christianity” is more of an Anglican idea in like with a modified “branch theory” view of ecclesiology where Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, and Calvinism are all seen as “branches” of the one Church

 

[Monk Brendan]

I read the book... or at least most of it? About 17 years ago when I was in my teens

I think the idea of “mere Christianity” is more of an Anglican idea in like with a modified “branch theory” view of ecclesiology where Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, and Calvinism are all seen as “branches” of the one Church

But they all have some things in common.

THIS is what CSL called "mere Christianity."

 

[zippy2006]

But they all have some things in common.

THIS is what CSL called "mere Christianity."

It is a propos that this post comes from an Eastern Catholic, because the existence of Eastern Catholic Churches is evidence of a kind of "branch theory" (John 15:5) within the Catholic Church Herself.

A concrete example of "Mere Christianity" would be the fact that all Christians take the four gospels to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is the idea that all Christians have certain things in common, and Lewis was attempting to write about those things. I'm sure there are a million other examples of commonalities, and another million examples of differences.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I read the book... or at least most of it? About 17 years ago when I was in my teens

I think the idea of “mere Christianity” is more of an Anglican idea in like with a modified “branch theory” view of ecclesiology where Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, and Calvinism are all seen as “branches” of the one Church

I don't accept the branch theory, but it's true that many of us have a lot in common.