My one obligatory Origins thread

[Talmid HaYarok]

Being a Messianic Jew who studies the Hebrew scriptures and an Ecologist both by profession and by education the Origins debate has always been of some interest to me.

You never see me participating in these discussions though and this will be my one and only post because of the general hostility and the un-Christian lack of love seen in these debates.

For the record I don't believe in any form of creationism because I believe its bad theology and horrible bible scholarship. Neither do I believe in any form of Neo-Darwinism because I believe its mostly "junk science".

If you've got any questions about my perspective on the argument as a Messianic Jew and an Ecologist then please ask civilly. I won't respond to people who are rude and I've got no intention of getting involved in any other threads.

Shalom, Peace.

 

[CopticOrthodox]

When you say you don't believe in any form of creationism, what exactly do you mean by that? By the word creationism do you mean 6/7 day creationism, or do you mean that you don't believe that God directly created everything? (I consider myself a creationist because I believe that God created everything directly, but I don't accept the literal interpretation of the 6 days). This isn't an attack, I'm just curious and trying to understand exactly what you mean because I'm slow and not quite sure, thanks.

 

[Follower of Christ]

I do have a couple questions.

Do you believe the flood was local or global?

Were the writings of the Hebrew people that are represented in our current bibles, influenced in any way by the other cultures?

The dispersion at the Tower of Babel. Did this lead to the many languages and possibly the different races today?

Were Adam and Eve literal people?

Who was Lucifer (brief explanation)

Who is Satan? (again, something brief will do)

Is there any relation of Lucifer to Satan?

I will give you a chance to look at these before asking more.

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

yes, I believe in Creation but not Creationism. Creationism is the rather modern theological belief that the Bible can be interpreted from english as science.

Yesterday at 11:53 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #3

I do have a couple questions.

Do you believe the flood was local or global?

Don't know. I lean towards global though.

Were the writings of the Hebrew people that are represented in our current bibles, influenced in any way by the other cultures?

or were they all influenced by something which came before that? Nothing occurs in a cultural vacuum so their is "influence". I'm not sure what this question is getting at.

The dispersion at the Tower of Babel. Did this lead to the many languages and possibly the different races today?

Yes

Were Adam and Eve literal people?

yes

Who was Lucifer (brief explanation)

Nobody in Genesis

Who is Satan? (again, something brief will do)

Nobody in Genesis

Is there any relation of Lucifer to Satan?

Not in Genesis

I will give you a chance to look at these before asking more.

I'm leaving this thread to Origins questions. If you've got questions about non-Origins stuff (i.e. - Lucifer/Satan) which don't appear in Genesis or have scientific bearing then those questions are best asked in the Messianic forum.

 

[Follower of Christ]

I alway test everything (including everyone)

These question, especially those concerning Lucifer and his role are a major issue when anyone who is Jewish says he believes that Jesus was the Christ.

Concerning lack of love, I dont think that our feelings toward each other as brethren can be properly exhibited in a written manner such as this.

I love every single person on this planet who go by the name of christian.
I love my enemies as well.
One cannot determine the emotional/spiritual feelings of someone in here.

Most of us dont go around saying things like "I love you man".

All one is going to see here is hard, calculated language with no apparent emotion.
Rest assured, that most of us, even though we disagree so adamantly, would give the shirts off our backs to one another if needed.

 

[Follower of Christ]

I guess I should have continued...

You say that Lucifer/Satan was not present in Genesis.

I would ask about the serpent (in genesis)

 

[CopticOrthodox]

So, what do you believe about how God created? Just that He created everything, or anything more specific?

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

I believe the Serpent was a serpent just as the bible says in Hebrew. If one believes its allegorical though then they need to accept the whole passage (Toldoth, Story of Adam and Eve) as allegorical in order to be consistent with Hebrew narrative. Given that its followed by a Genealogy I accept it as literal.

As for the story of creation, its not intended as a recipe for creating worlds and is by no means scientific. Its entirely moral for those who didn't pick up on the repeated patterns. The point is that it was all made Good. People get so hung up on turning these passages into science that they miss the entire point of the sections.

 

[Follower of Christ]

So let me understand this.

You believe that a talking snake was merely a snake (taken literally), but you stop there and say that the more descriptive story of creation is a narrative (not taken literally) ??

Now this is very interesting....

Again, I would like to add that I test everything, so please dont be offended at any of my questions.

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

1st April 2003 at 12:29 PM Talmid HaYarok said this in Post #8

I believe the Serpent was a serpent just as the bible says in Hebrew. If one believes its allegorical though then they need to accept the whole passage (Toldoth, Story of Adam and Eve) as allegorical in order to be consistent with Hebrew narrative. Given that its followed by a Genealogy I accept it as literal.

 

[seebs]

I really don't see the Lucifer/Satan thing as fitting at all; that's a debate over a passage in Isaiah, what's it got to do with origins?