My Messiah isn't a sinner

[DaRkWoLf]

Anger is not a sin. Nor is hate, in the proper context.

The Bible speaks of God's perfect Anger and Hatred.

I can't rationalize offering servitude or worship to an entity which doesn't just hate, but has willfully turned it into a system of sorts.

Why would someone actually want to associate themselves with an entity which has no desire to overcome such detrimental, chosen, attribute? How does a hateful entity qualify as a supreme being, for that matter?

 

[B®ent]

I can't rationalize offering servitude or worship to an entity which doesn't just hate, but has willfully turned it into a system of sorts.

Why would someone actually want to associate themselves with an entity which has no desire to overcome such detrimental, chosen, attribute?

http://www.christianforums.com/t4603176-gods-perfect-hatred.html

 

[B®ent]

Thanks for strengthening my previous statement.

We cannot fully comprehend God's wrath because we do not fully grasp the utter filthiness and rebellious nature of sin. To paraphrase a great puritan preacher, in every act of sin we remove God from the throne, kick Him aside as filth, and place ourselves on the throne. We rebel as Lucifer rebelled.

That is why, unless the Blood of Jesus Christ covers our sins, we will burn in hell for ever and ever as vessels of God's perfect judgment. God may seem "harsh" to mere men, but He is Holy!

 

[kiwimac]

I disagree entirely Brent.

 

[DaRkWoLf]

We cannot fully comprehend God's wrath because we do not fully grasp the utter filthiness and rebellious nature of sin. To paraphrase a great puritan preacher, in every act of sin we remove God from the throne, kick Him aside as filth, and place ourselves on the throne. We rebel as Lucifer rebelled.

Maybe I should go and slowly skin the fist person I see walk down the street. My actions are assuredly just (Why? because I said so, of course.) you just cant understand it. Yeah... Right...

That is why, unless the Blood of Jesus Christ covers our sins, we will burn in hell for ever and ever as vessels of God's perfect judgment. God may seem "harsh" to mere men, but He is Holy!

Since we're in the Ethics and Morality forums, I'll dissect some pretty clear instances of bad ethics here:
-Hate
-Wanton Violence
-Torture
-Glorification of Human Sacrifice (without an established need, no less; isn't BibleGod supposed to be omnipotent?)

How is an entity which supposedly hates, commits acts of violence essentially for the sake of it, and tortures just because he can, supposed to be "holy" or somehow deserving of praise?

 

[tapero]

Maybe I should go and slowly skin the fist person I see walk down the street. My actions are assuredly just (Why? because I said so, of course.) you just cant understand it. Yeah... Right...

Since we're in the Ethics and Morality forums, I'll dissect some pretty clear instances of bad ethics here:
-Hate
-Wanton Violence
-Torture
-Glorification of Human Sacrifice (without an established need, no less; isn't BibleGod supposed to be omnipotent?)

How is an entity which supposedly hates, commits acts of violence essentially for the sake of it, and tortures just because he can, supposed to be "holy" or somehow deserving of praise?

God hates sin, hates certaint things. In Psalms it says He hates the ungodly, so that means He hated me when I didn't believe, however the bible says that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son. So God loves us. Try and understand God; we are not able to fully comprehend Him, but whatever He does it is out of a justness. God is good.

Don't know where God commited acts of violence. Angels carried out whatever He asked of them, or the chosen carried out whatever He asked of them. I have to think where God committed an act of violence, though I do understand what you mean.

He did command people to carry out His righteous decrees.

It isn't for the sake of it, as you write, it is for a purpose, a divine purpose, we don't understand it all, we only see now in part.

When you say torture, I guess you are speaking of Hell. Don't understand it all, but God doesn't do it, it is part of His plan for man who deny Him. Many will be decieved, by ungodly preachers, and go to hell. It's very sad really. The world is also decieved by satan. It is very sad. The torture will be a reaping what is sown effect. It is a place of torment and gnashing of the teeth. They have supressed the knowledge of God.

Yes, He is Holy. He is just. I can't explain it as I don't understand it, but I do know that God is good.

 

[TooCurious]

Don't know where God commited acts of violence. Angels carried out whatever He asked of them, or the chosen carried out whatever He asked of them. I have to think where God committed an act of violence, though I do understand what you mean.

How about Noah's flood? According to the story, he drowned every land-dwelling living creature that didn't get a ticket onto the Ark. That not only includes all the "wicked men" he was trying to kill, but the infant children of those wicked men, the unborn that any pregnant "wicked women" were carrying, and every member of every species of animal other than the ones that boarded the Ark two-by-two; all the cattle, all the cats and dogs and rabbits and mice and horses and sheep and lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) and squirrels and ostriches and chickens and sparrows and every other member of every other species of land-bound life on the planet. According to the story, he drowned them all. However, being omnipotent, he could have just snapped his fingers and all the "wicked men" would have dropped dead. Or he could have sent his angels to kill them all. But instead, we have an account of wanton slaughter by drowning.

*shudder* I have a bit of a fear of water. I know that's not how I'd want to go.

 

[tapero]

How about Noah's flood? According to the story, he drowned every land-dwelling living creature that didn't get a ticket onto the Ark. That not only includes all the "wicked men" he was trying to kill, but the infant children of those wicked men, the unborn that any pregnant "wicked women" were carrying, and every member of every species of animal other than the ones that boarded the Ark two-by-two; all the cattle, all the cats and dogs and rabbits and mice and horses and sheep and lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) and squirrels and ostriches and chickens and sparrows and every other member of every other species of land-bound life on the planet. According to the story, he drowned them all. However, being omnipotent, he could have just snapped his fingers and all the "wicked men" would have dropped dead. Or he could have sent his angels to kill them all. But instead, we have an account of wanton slaughter by drowning.

*shudder* I have a bit of a fear of water. I know that's not how I'd want to go.

Yes, I didn't write every instance down of where God decreed things. In the instance of the flood, I suppose He carried it out. I don't know why He didn't take all the lives instead of using the flood. Must be something in the nature of God that He will not violate certain laws set in motion from the beginnng of time. I wouldn't want to drown either.

 

[Angel4Truth]

closed for staff review

 

[SandCrab]

Thread Re-opened after review

Please people lets keep to the rules...

 

[Gentle]

I can't rationalize offering servitude or worship to an entity which doesn't just hate, but has willfully turned it into a system of sorts.

Why would someone actually want to associate themselves with an entity which has no desire to overcome such detrimental, chosen, attribute? How does a hateful entity qualify as a supreme being, for that matter?

I think Jesus would agree with you and that book is ugly.
peace dude

 

[MercyBurst]

Also Anger is a sin,

Nope, afraid not. God's wrath is not sin -- it's righteous indignation.

 

[MercyBurst]

To your knowledge, he didn't do any of those things (though he did drink). However, maybe it's me, but I'm not seeing the point of this post...

Jesus did not abuse alchohol though it was part of what he drank in the wine. Drunkeness is a sin according to the OT, and Jesus came to fulfil all the OT law which includes Leviticus by the way:

Matthew 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Otherwise Jesus was a liar if He did not fulfil the law, which included the sabath, and he declared himself Lord of the sabbath.

Hence he was not gay either, nor was He an adulterer or a fornictor, or anything else condemned in the OT.

Human motivation and emotion does not change the law. For example let's say a man is married yet he loves another woman. This does not justify an adulterous relationship -- just because they happen to love each other (a human motivation). You hear people say that "love" justifies sex. This just isn't true.

Jesus did not die on the cross to justify sin.

 

[Gentle]

Nope, afraid not. God's wrath is not sin -- it's righteous indignation.

Do you see God as possessing this quality? Wrath?

peace, God bless
Gentle

 

[tapero]

Quote:
Also Anger is a sin,

Nope, afraid not. God's wrath is not sin -- it's righteous indignation.

Just wanted to add here that scripture says:

In your anger, do not sin.

Anger is not a sin.

 

[tapero]

Do you see God as possessing this quality? Wrath?

peace, God bless
Gentle

Yes, God does have wrath.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

The thread is closed for review.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

The thread has been cleaned up.
Members must post within the forum rules.

Due to the Apologetic nature of the OP and the content of 3.5. topics, I am moving this to the Liberal Theology forum. All CF rules and policies will apply, so please keep it within bounds.

Thank you

 

[MercyBurst]

Do you see God as possessing this quality? Wrath?

peace, God bless
Gentle

Yes, biblically speaking we see this quite often, as Jesus said:

John 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Revelation 16:1And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Needles to say, unrepentent sin makes God quite angry. He died on the cross to offer a way out, and yet sinners turn him away so they can indulge in their own sinful pleasures. Hence his judgment is coming as He promised.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Amen.

We believe in the same Jesus. The GOOD Jesus, not the BAD fake one. Not the one that has all those little white lies and half truths. Not the one that says you're ok just like you are.

Personally, I believe in the GOOD Jesus (the only real One) who says I am LOVED just as I am and that HE will do a good work in me and with me ... not the BAD fake one who says I have to become perfect to prove the sincerity of my repentance before He will save me.