my lifetime struggle

[geofrank]

This is my first post here. I think I have some measure of OCD, but I’m not sure.

When I was 12 yrs old I accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior. I experienced an emotional high that felt like nothing else I had ever experienced. Pure joy and total peace. My parents did not attend church and were not openly religious. With no support, this high lasted about 3 months and then faded away.

A few years later I began to attempt to reconnect with God. I had my parents drive me around town to talk to Catholic priests, Episcopalian priests, and several protestant ministers. I was looking for guidance in regaining my original experience and also help with intellectual doubts about the reality of God and the truthfulness of Christianity. I had little luck in finding satisfactory answers. My mind had become my worst enemy. I can come up with more reasons to doubt than any skeptic. My tombstone should read “He doubted better than anyone”.

For the next 20 years I searched and suffered with a running debate in my mind about the truthfulness of Christianity. This debate occupied most of my time every day. There was no relief. Christians would be glad to help when first meeting me, but when their advice and bible verses gave me no lasting relief, they would distance themselves. After 20 yrs I finally gave up and quit searching. Gradually the debate ceased and I had relative peace.

Fast forward 30 yrs and I get a phone call from my son, who is in prison for his second felony. He is a heavy substance abuser with many psychological issues of his own. He says he is thinking of turning to God for help. I encouraged this and told him that many people with his history have been helped by faith in God. This conversation caused tears to my eyes and I was back wanting to believe again. And guess what? The doubts are as difficult and persistent as they ever were. I once again have a running debate in my mind about the truthfulness of Christianity. With the web I have good access to a lot of apologetic material. But it’s like my life is a boat with a large hole in it. The water rushing in is the doubts. Reading apologetic material is like bailing water. But the water keeps coming in and I can’t get ahead of it at all.

I have 3 models of what is going on. 1. From a skeptical point of view, I emotionally crave a loving God with a wonderful afterlife, but being a modern man in the scientific age I know in my mind that it isn’t true. 2. From a mind, body, spirit perspective I have the Holy Spirit in my life resulting from my born again experience when I was twelve. But my mind is under attack from satan aided by a modern skeptical outlook. So my spirit and mind(soul) are at war with each other. 3. My doubts aren’t unusual but OCD gives them much more power and control over me.

Thirty years ago the doubts wore me down after 20 yrs and I gave up trying to believe. This time it’s been about ten months since I began to try to believe again and I already feel my feeble faith disappearing faster than ever. I fear that soon I will once again give up in despair.

Nothing would make me happier than to have a dependable, strong faith. Conversely, nothing makes me sadder or more depressed than thinking I will lose this battle again.
I’m currently reading “Can Christianity cure OCD” by Ian Osborn, but My hopes about this book are fading as I read it. I can’t read the Bible because it is full of contradictions and events that are virtually unbelievable.

In this society people envy those with money and power. I only want a strong faith and confidence that God exists, he loves me and life has real meaning. This should be attainable for anyone who wants them. But alas, my experience tells me that it’s not my fate to enjoy these true treasures.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Sounds like you probably do struggle with OCD. As I suggest to everyone battling OCD, you should seek professional help if this is the case. Treat the OCD- not just the symptoms! I seldom recommend a book on this forum, but in your case, I would suggest you read a book which might help entitled Letters From a Skeptic by Dr Greg Boyd. You can get it on www. amazon.com if not at local bookstore.

 

[raven1]

I am in the same boat. I am really starting to believe some are chosen for hell.

 

[cimbk]

This is my first post here. I think I have some measure of OCD, but I’m not sure.

When I was 12 yrs old I accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior. I experienced an emotional high that felt like nothing else I had ever experienced. Pure joy and total peace. My parents did not attend church and were not openly religious. With no support, this high lasted about 3 months and then faded away.

A few years later I began to attempt to reconnect with God. I had my parents drive me around town to talk to Catholic priests, Episcopalian priests, and several protestant ministers. I was looking for guidance in regaining my original experience and also help with intellectual doubts about the reality of God and the truthfulness of Christianity. I had little luck in finding satisfactory answers. My mind had become my worst enemy. I can come up with more reasons to doubt than any skeptic. My tombstone should read “He doubted better than anyone”.

For the next 20 years I searched and suffered with a running debate in my mind about the truthfulness of Christianity. This debate occupied most of my time every day. There was no relief. Christians would be glad to help when first meeting me, but when their advice and bible verses gave me no lasting relief, they would distance themselves. After 20 yrs I finally gave up and quit searching. Gradually the debate ceased and I had relative peace.

Fast forward 30 yrs and I get a phone call from my son, who is in prison for his second felony. He is a heavy substance abuser with many psychological issues of his own. He says he is thinking of turning to God for help. I encouraged this and told him that many people with his history have been helped by faith in God. This conversation caused tears to my eyes and I was back wanting to believe again. And guess what? The doubts are as difficult and persistent as they ever were. I once again have a running debate in my mind about the truthfulness of Christianity. With the web I have good access to a lot of apologetic material. But it’s like my life is a boat with a large hole in it. The water rushing in is the doubts. Reading apologetic material is like bailing water. But the water keeps coming in and I can’t get ahead of it at all.

I have 3 models of what is going on. 1. From a skeptical point of view, I emotionally crave a loving God with a wonderful afterlife, but being a modern man in the scientific age I know in my mind that it isn’t true. 2. From a mind, body, spirit perspective I have the Holy Spirit in my life resulting from my born again experience when I was twelve. But my mind is under attack from satan aided by a modern skeptical outlook. So my spirit and mind(soul) are at war with each other. 3. My doubts aren’t unusual but OCD gives them much more power and control over me.

Thirty years ago the doubts wore me down after 20 yrs and I gave up trying to believe. This time it’s been about ten months since I began to try to believe again and I already feel my feeble faith disappearing faster than ever. I fear that soon I will once again give up in despair.

Nothing would make me happier than to have a dependable, strong faith. Conversely, nothing makes me sadder or more depressed than thinking I will lose this battle again.
I’m currently reading “Can Christianity cure OCD” by Ian Osborn, but My hopes about this book are fading as I read it. I can’t read the Bible because it is full of contradictions and events that are virtually unbelievable.

In this society people envy those with money and power. I only want a strong faith and confidence that God exists, he loves me and life has real meaning. This should be attainable for anyone who wants them. But alas, my experience tells me that it’s not my fate to enjoy these true treasures.

I once had a demon who impersonated my own inner voice, everything about this voice made me really believe it was me who was thinking this way.

this voice in my head was in complete opposition of God, and wanted me to reject God's truth, and His word, long story short when this demon was removed I actually could hear it curse and swear in my own voice, all the lies it had been feeding my mind for a very long time,

when it was out of me, its voice was no longer like my own but simply the voice of what anyone would consider demonic, and for a few hours it was screaming at me, cursing me and telling me I would never get away

But thanks be to God, and His Son Jesus these evil spirits are nolonger making me have a divided conscience, or mind, I hold to the word of God as sure truth, and now everything in my life has been changed to the better

I'm not saying you have an evil spirit, but just want you to recieve the possibility that not every internal voice may be our own, which is why the bible says test the spirits, any spirit that acknowledges Jesus as Lord and Savior of the world, is the only trust worthy spirit to listen to.

All others begin to rebuke and stop listening to, nomatter how much they sound like you, the bible says "resist the devil and he will flee from you" this constant rebuking will cause these doubting spirits to flee, you can find that love and connection with God again, but your going to have to fight

 

[followJesus1811]

Hi!

I really wanted to encourage you to turn to God's word. It is the Lord speaking. I think that books are great help, but the word of God and the Holy Spirit combined is what transforms lives. You said some verses did not help you and that some of the Bible contradicts itself. What parts of the bible do you struggle with?

I think a great book to start with is Romans or John. And reading a Psalm a day has really helped me. The psalmist was always crying out to the Lord. He suffered and was scared. But he always turned to God, who became His refuge. It helps us to really know God's character. I like Psalm 16, 18, 34, and 91. Great to pray over!

Also, you say that

"Nothing would make me happier than to have a dependable, strong faith"

Is your hope and joy in your faith or in Christ Jesus? He is the only rock. His love is steadfast. He made complete atonement.

Just be honest in your prayers with the Lord. He is listening! He is near! Praying for ya!

 

[gracealone]

Hi Frank,
Thanks for sharing your story. So have you ever been diagnosed with OCD? And has it ever caused you to have obsessions on other themes?
If you are a Christian and you have OCD it's very likely that it could attach itself to your faith. It always goes to things that are near and dear to us - our health, our closest relationships etc.
A good read, in order for you to see that you wouldn't be the only one who suffers in this way is; "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners" by John Bunyan. You have to read clear through to the end in order to see how he was able to press on past the doubt filled questions and blasphemous thoughts and continue to serve the Gospel of Christ. Reading that book has been for me like reading quite a bit of my own experience. I'm so glad that God led Mr. Bunyan to set it all down on paper for our encouragement and benefit.
A huge component of OCD, when it's bad is "avoidance". It's so much easier to avoid any thing that stirs up the doubts. This is because when they get stirred up we feel miserable. People who have contamination OCD will often avoid anything that might have a germ on it because it's just easier for them to avoid than to be forced to sit with the doubt and anxiety that touching a toilet seat or a door knob causes to them.
Another good place to begin to learn about OCD, most especially the purely obsessional form is www.ocdonline.com Read Dr. Phillipson's article; "Rethinking The Unthinkable".
KayKay also gave you some awesome advice. I'd go with it if I were you.
I'll be praying for you, Frank.
Mitzi

This is my first post here. I think I have some measure of OCD, but I’m not sure.

When I was 12 yrs old I accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior. I experienced an emotional high that felt like nothing else I had ever experienced. Pure joy and total peace. My parents did not attend church and were not openly religious. With no support, this high lasted about 3 months and then faded away.

A few years later I began to attempt to reconnect with God. I had my parents drive me around town to talk to Catholic priests, Episcopalian priests, and several protestant ministers. I was looking for guidance in regaining my original experience and also help with intellectual doubts about the reality of God and the truthfulness of Christianity. I had little luck in finding satisfactory answers. My mind had become my worst enemy. I can come up with more reasons to doubt than any skeptic. My tombstone should read “He doubted better than anyone”.

For the next 20 years I searched and suffered with a running debate in my mind about the truthfulness of Christianity. This debate occupied most of my time every day. There was no relief. Christians would be glad to help when first meeting me, but when their advice and bible verses gave me no lasting relief, they would distance themselves. After 20 yrs I finally gave up and quit searching. Gradually the debate ceased and I had relative peace.

Fast forward 30 yrs and I get a phone call from my son, who is in prison for his second felony. He is a heavy substance abuser with many psychological issues of his own. He says he is thinking of turning to God for help. I encouraged this and told him that many people with his history have been helped by faith in God. This conversation caused tears to my eyes and I was back wanting to believe again. And guess what? The doubts are as difficult and persistent as they ever were. I once again have a running debate in my mind about the truthfulness of Christianity. With the web I have good access to a lot of apologetic material. But it’s like my life is a boat with a large hole in it. The water rushing in is the doubts. Reading apologetic material is like bailing water. But the water keeps coming in and I can’t get ahead of it at all.

I have 3 models of what is going on. 1. From a skeptical point of view, I emotionally crave a loving God with a wonderful afterlife, but being a modern man in the scientific age I know in my mind that it isn’t true. 2. From a mind, body, spirit perspective I have the Holy Spirit in my life resulting from my born again experience when I was twelve. But my mind is under attack from satan aided by a modern skeptical outlook. So my spirit and mind(soul) are at war with each other. 3. My doubts aren’t unusual but OCD gives them much more power and control over me.

Thirty years ago the doubts wore me down after 20 yrs and I gave up trying to believe. This time it’s been about ten months since I began to try to believe again and I already feel my feeble faith disappearing faster than ever. I fear that soon I will once again give up in despair.

Nothing would make me happier than to have a dependable, strong faith. Conversely, nothing makes me sadder or more depressed than thinking I will lose this battle again.
I’m currently reading “Can Christianity cure OCD” by Ian Osborn, but My hopes about this book are fading as I read it. I can’t read the Bible because it is full of contradictions and events that are virtually unbelievable.

In this society people envy those with money and power. I only want a strong faith and confidence that God exists, he loves me and life has real meaning. This should be attainable for anyone who wants them. But alas, my experience tells me that it’s not my fate to enjoy these true treasures.

 

[geofrank]

Thanks for the responses.

I haven't been diagnosed with OCD. I did have a talk with a psychiatrist treating my son and she thought I had some degree of OCD. There are many other areas of my life where obsessive doubts have limited my enjoyment and participation in various activities.

Reading the Bible itself is really painful. I have real trouble with salvation by faith as opposed to works. The Bible clearly teaches that without works your faith has little if any value. I'm familiar with the viewpoint that it's all faith, but if I read the Bible I come away very frustrated because I see works required to prove the faith is real. In my mind I always fall far short of any type of performance standard. Then there's the old testament. Talking snakes, magical fruit, Noahs' story, stoning disrespectful juveniles to death... it all just seems made up, strange, or unbelievable.

John Bunyan's life story is contained in "Can Christianity cure OCD" by Ian Osborn. Osborn claims that Martin Luther, Bunyan, and St. Therese suffered with OCD and faith helped them.

OCDonline.com is new to me and I will have a look shortly. Secular sites on OCD seem to miss the mark as far as talking about OCD versus faith but I'll have a look see.

Another site I've found helpful is Garyhabermas.com. He has written a couple of books about faith and doubt. He does an in depth analysis of doubt from a psychological and philosophical perspective. 2 of his books are available on his site. The font is really small but they are a good read. He stresses that doubt is not the opposite of faith. Unbelief is the opposite of faith. Doubt always exists along side of belief.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

GeoFrank, Yes Habermas is a great source for this area as he also went through this, but his knowledge and experience is awesome in this area. They dont call him the resurrection man for nothing
I really look up to him

 

[gracealone]

Is all of Bunyan's story in there or just portions of it? The most important part comes near the end of the book. It's where he leaves off trying to discover or figure out whether or not his faith is real or not. He also quits trying to find out why he has blasphemous thoughts. He learns to live with and except his feelings of uncertainty while choosing to "venture all for the name of Christ" and to "leap off the ladder, even blindfolded into eternity." It amazed me how he was willing to expose himself to the idea that he might, after all end up in hell. But rather than struggling against it, he just let that fear lie there and totally quit trying to reassure himself about it. He did ERP without even understanding that he had OCD.
Christians with OCD have just as much knowledge and faith as other Christians but OCD is called "the doubting disease" and it will make us question and second guess anything that is vitally important to us. The more important and precious it is to us then the greater our distress over it.
In order to get an accurate diagnosis of OCD you really would need to open up completely with a doctor who treats it concerning the nature of all your obsessions no matter how strange or shocking they are. I held all that in to myself for many, many years and I'm sure that's why I didn't get the help I needed. Habermas is good. I've read his stuff also. But what really helped me was to learn to treat all my OCD obsessions with ERP no matter what the obsession is ERP will help it.
Anyhow, hang in there and we'll be praying for you.
Mitzi

Thanks for the responses.

I haven't been diagnosed with OCD. I did have a talk with a psychiatrist treating my son and she thought I had some degree of OCD. There are many other areas of my life where obsessive doubts have limited my enjoyment and participation in various activities.

Reading the Bible itself is really painful. I have real trouble with salvation by faith as opposed to works. The Bible clearly teaches that without works your faith has little if any value. I'm familiar with the viewpoint that it's all faith, but if I read the Bible I come away very frustrated because I see works required to prove the faith is real. In my mind I always fall far short of any type of performance standard. Then there's the old testament. Talking snakes, magical fruit, Noahs' story, stoning disrespectful juveniles to death... it all just seems made up, strange, or unbelievable.

John Bunyan's life story is contained in "Can Christianity cure OCD" by Ian Osborn. Osborn claims that Martin Luther, Bunyan, and St. Therese suffered with OCD and faith helped them.

OCDonline.com is new to me and I will have a look shortly. Secular sites on OCD seem to miss the mark as far as talking about OCD versus faith but I'll have a look see.

Another site I've found helpful is Garyhabermas.com. He has written a couple of books about faith and doubt. He does an in depth analysis of doubt from a psychological and philosophical perspective. 2 of his books are available on his site. The font is really small but they are a good read. He stresses that doubt is not the opposite of faith. Unbelief is the opposite of faith. Doubt always exists along side of belief.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Is all of Bunyan's story in there or just portions of it? The most important part comes near the end of the book. It's where he leaves off trying to discover or figure out whether or not his faith is real or not. He also quits trying to find out why he has blasphemous thoughts. He learns to live with and except his feelings of uncertainty while choosing to "venture all for the name of Christ" and to "leap off the ladder, even blindfolded into eternity." It amazed me how he was willing to expose himself to the idea that he might, after all end up in hell. But rather than struggling against it, he just let that fear lie there and totally quit trying to reassure himself about it. He did ERP without even understanding that he had OCD.
Christians with OCD have just as much knowledge and faith as other Christians but OCD is called "the doubting disease" and it will make us question and second guess anything that is vitally important to us. The more important and precious it is to us then the greater our distress over it.
In order to get an accurate diagnosis of OCD you really would need to open up completely with a doctor who treats it concerning the nature of all your obsessions no matter how strange or shocking they are. I held all that in to myself for many, many years and I'm sure that's why I didn't get the help I needed. Habermas is good. I've read his stuff also. But what really helped me was to learn to treat all my OCD obsessions with ERP no matter what the obsession is ERP will help it.
Anyhow, hang in there and we'll be praying for you.
Mitzi

Mitzi, you are so right about Bunyan. His faith is what I call a truely amazing faith. Im just glad we have people like them to help us understand and when we have the strength to take action against our ocd. They are very good role models
Bunyans books are worth their weight in gold

 

[flowerforever7]

Hi,

I am not a doctor, so I do not know if you have OCD or not. And I'm not attempting to answer all of what you mentioned in your post by my reply. I just want to share a resource with you. I know you have some apologetics info on the web you are familiar with. If you haven't been to the weblink below I just want to share it with you. It goes in depth about alleged contradictions in the Bible, showing how they are actually not contradictions. Here is the link:

Apologetics Press

Hope this is helpful to you in some way.

God bless you.

_____
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[raven1]

How can u distinguish faith mixed with doubt from fencesitting?