My latest chart (number 3)

[Douggg]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I should have included Matthew 24:29. I went back and edited my post to read Matthew 24:29-30a.

 

[Douggg]

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has returned, and is at the beginning of the millennium.

 

[Douggg]

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Yes at the sixth seal event they hide in fear, but when Jesus returns in Revelation 19 they will have gathered their armies to fight against Him and His army.

So something has to happen between the hiding in fear - to them gathering their armies to preparing to fight Him. Which is the Revelation 16 verses about the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon (Satan) convincing them to make war on Jesus.

1. The sixth seal sign of the Son of Man in heaven 1st. Causing hiding in fear.
2. Then the beast, false prophet, Satan convincing the kings of the earth to fight.
3. Then Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven, to destroy the armies, and remove
the beast, the false prophet, the Aod, and Satan from the temple.

I have been showing on my chart, that the 1290 days from when the AoD is setup in temple, that period of 1290 days (the tribulation of those days in Matthew 24:29) leads to the sixth seal. Followed by the 45 days which they gather their armies.


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[BABerean2]

Yes at the sixth seal event they hide in fear, but when Jesus returns in Revelation 19 they will have gathered their armies to fight against Him and His army.

So something has to happen between the hiding in fear - to them gathering their armies to preparing to fight Him. Which is the Revelation 16 verses about the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon (Satan) convincing them to make war on Jesus.

1. The sixth seal sign of the Son of Man in heaven 1st. Causing hiding in fear.
2. Then the beast, false prophet, Satan convincing the kings of the earth to fight.
3. Then Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven, to destroy the armies, and remove
the beast, the false prophet, the Aod, and Satan from the temple.

I have been showing on my chart, that the 1290 days from when the AoD is setup in temple, that period of 1290 days (the tribulation of those days in Matthew 24:29) leads to the sixth seal. Followed by the 45 days which they gather their armies.


.View attachment 261928

Why are you are attempting to ignore the end of Revelation chapter 6?

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Can you make the above fit on your chart?

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[Douggg]

Why are you are attempting to ignore the end of Revelation chapter 6?

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Can you make the above fit on your chart?

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The sixth seal is on my chart. The sixth seal is the sign of the Son of Man in the third heaven. Jesus is before the throne of God, about to carry out retribution on them martyered during the Great Tribulation.

Jesus's wrath is not executed the day the (second) heaven parts and the world see Him. It is 45 days later that Jesus descends to earth, coming in the clouds of (the third) heaven in power and great glory, to execute judgment.

 

[Douggg]

Why are you are attempting to ignore the end of Revelation chapter 6?

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Can you make the above fit on your chart?

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Already fulfilled 2000 years ago...Jesus given the kingdom of Heaven.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven [the third heaven], and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.



Bab2, end times, still future, what I envision is that on the day of the Son of Man appears in the (third) heaven, is that the cosmos (the star system of the second heaven) is parted, the sixth seal. And the world sees Jesus before the Throne of God, surrounded by billowing clouds of the third heaven. It sends terror to the wicked of the world, wanting to hide they are so scared.

The billowing clouds close, and the beast, false prophet, and Satan in the latter stages of the sixth bowl of God's wrath, in Revelation 16, convince the kings of the earth to take a stand and to gather their armies to prepare to make war on Jesus and take them in Jerusalem captive as hostages as insurance (Zechariah 14:2).

For 45 days they pursue their plan. Near the end of the 45 days, the seventh bowl of God's wrath takes place. The final destruction of Satan's kingdom, Revelation 16:19 and for retribution of them in Revelation 18:24.

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Then after the seventh bowl of God's wrath is over....
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On the 45th day.....the billowing clouds in the third heaven part...

Revelation 19:11 And I saw [the third] heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Jesus then comes in the clouds of the third heaven (Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of [the third] heaven with power and great glory.)

following Him...

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in [the third] heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Which with Jesus is the Return of Jesus, with his saints.

 

[BABerean2]

what I envision is that on the day of the Son of Man appears in the (third) heaven, is

What you "envision" comes from your own imagination, instead of from the text of the Bible, if you think the signs in the sun, moon, and stars from Revelation chapter 6, is not related to the same in the Olivet Discourse at the Second Coming of Christ.

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[Douggg]

What you "envision" comes from your own imagination, instead of from the text of the Bible, if you think the signs in the sun, moon, and stars from Revelation chapter 6, is not related to the same in the Olivet Discourse at the Second Coming of Christ.

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Bab2, the reason I prefaced what I wrote by saying I envision is because so many times I hear other says "the word of God tells us" so-n-so, when really all they are doing is piecing together their interpretation of different verses to express their view.

The text of the bible doesn't say the sixth seal happens on the day that Jesus returns. Plus the Second Coming term can be more broadly that meaning the very day that Jesus descends to earth.

 

[BABerean2]

The text of the bible doesn't say the sixth seal happens on the day that Jesus returns.

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matthew 24:29
Yet immediately after the tribulation of those days,
the sun shall be being darkened<4654>,
and the moon not shall be giving it;sbeam<5338>
and the stars shall be falling from the heaven,
and the powers<1411> of the heavens shall be being shaken<4531>
Mark 13:
24 But in those the days, after that tribulation,
that the sun shall be being darkened,
and the moon not shall be give it's beam,
25 and the stars shall be falling out of the heaven,
and the powers in the heavens shall be be being shaken
Luke 21:
25 And shall be signs in sun, and moon, and stars,
And on the land together anguish/distress<4928>of nations, state of quandary<640>, roaring<2279> of sea and of shaking/tempest<4535>,
26 men fainting-of-heart<674> from fear<5401> and apprehensiveness<4329> of the coming to the home-dwellers<3625>.
For the powers of the heavens shall be being shaken.

Matthew 24:30
And then shall be appearing the sign of the Son of the Man in heaven,
and then shall be grieving/striking selves<2875>all the Tribes of the land.
And they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory
Mark 13:26
And they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in clouds with much power and glory.
Luke 21:27 And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud with power and much glory;

Matthew 24:31
and He shall be commissioning His Messengers with a great trumpet sound and they shall be assembling<1996> His Chosen out of the four winds,
from extremities<206> of heavens till of the extremities of them.
Mark 13:27
and then he shall be commissioning His Messengers, and He shall be assembling His Chosen out of the four winds,
from extremity of land till extremity of heaven.
===================================
Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four Messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;

Ezekiel 37:9
And He saith unto me: 'Prophesy unto the Spirit, prophesy, son of adam, and thou hast said unto the Spirit: Thus said Adonay Yahweh
From the four winds come in, O Spirit, and breathe on these slain, and they do live.'
==========================
Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?

Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.

Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

 

[Douggg]

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.

But that is not the same as saying the Day Jesus descends down to earth.

On the Day that Jesus descends down to earth, the armies will have gathered together to make war on Jesus - not hiding from Him in caves.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[BABerean2]

But that is not the same as saying the Day Jesus descends down to earth.

On the Day that Jesus descends down to earth, the armies will have gathered together to make war on Jesus - not hiding from Him in caves.

Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders(captains KJV), the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,

Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.


Rev 19:18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

.

 

[Douggg]

commanders(captains KJV), the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,

Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.


Rev 19:18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

Yes, exactly, same guys, but in Revelation 6 they are hiding themselves.

In Revelation 19, they have gathered their armies to make war on Jesus.

Now look carefully at the order in Matthew 24:29-30, you will that the sixth seal happens first, as the Sign of the Son of Man in (the third heaven).

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven [Okay, that is the sixth seal, the cosmos of stars pulled aide, and the wicked hide in the caves]: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [okay, that is Revelation 19:11-19 Jesus's Return down to earth, and the wicked are not hiding in caves but have gathered their armies to make war on Jesus.]

Matthew 24:29 the cosmos of the second heaven parts. The world sees Jesus in the third heaven. The wicked hide in caves - showing that the sixth seal event PRECEDES the Revelation 19 events which they are no longer in caves but have gathered together to make on Jesus.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes, exactly, same guys, but in Revelation 6 they are hiding themselves.

In Revelation 19, they have gathered their armies to make war on Jesus.

Now look carefully at the order in Matthew 24:29-30, you will that the sixth seal happens first, as the Sign of the Son of Man in (the third heaven).

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven [Okay, that is the sixth seal, the cosmos of stars pulled aide, and the wicked hide in the caves]: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [okay, that is Revelation 19:11-19 Jesus's Return down to earth, and the wicked are not hiding in caves but have gathered their armies to make war on Jesus.]

Matthew 24:29 the cosmos of the second heaven parts. The world sees Jesus in the third heaven. The wicked hide in caves - showing that the sixth seal event PRECEDES the Revelation 19 events which they are no longer in caves but have gathered together to make on Jesus.

Why do you keep trying to ignore the verse below, which reveals the passage is about the Second Coming?

Mat 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders(captains KJV), the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 19:18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

That is speaking of the 1st century Jewish Rulers, Jerusalem and Temple.
They were punished with everlasting destruction at the consummation of the Age as prophecied in the 70AD Olivet Discourse.....

John 11:48 If-ever we should be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place/topon <5117> and the Nation.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the face<4383> of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;

Revelation 12:8 And not he is strong, neither Place<5117> was found of Them still in the Heaven.

Same events, one view from the land, the other from heaven
Revelation is not in order............

Revelation 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks: 'Be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face<4383> of the One-sitting/kaqhmenon <2521> (5740) upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb-kin

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne.
And the One-sitting/kaqhmenon <2521> (5740) on it, from Who's Face<4383> fled the Land and the Heaven and Place<5117> not was found to-them.
==========================
Any idea what is meant by "Consummation of the AGE"

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?

Mark 13
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.

Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

 

[Douggg]

Why do you keep trying to ignore the verse below, which reveals the passage is about the Second Coming?

Mat 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

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I am being more precise about the Second Coming than you are. You are generalizing.

Matthew 24:31. Read Ezekiel 39 starting at Ezekiel 39:17-20 and read through to Ezekiel 39:28. Ezekiel 39:28 is Matthew 24:31.

 

[BABerean2]

I am being more precise about the Second Coming than you are. You are generalizing.

Matthew 24:31. Read Ezekiel 39 starting at Ezekiel 39:17-20 and read through to Ezekiel 39:28. Ezekiel 39:28 is Matthew 24:31.

Matthew Henry agrees with me in the commentary below.

Matthew 24:29-41

Christ foretells his second coming. It is usual for prophets to speak of things as near and just at hand, to express the greatness and certainty of them. Concerning Christ's second coming, it is foretold that there shall be a great change, in order to the making all things new. Then they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds. At his first coming, he was set for a sign that should be spoken against, but at his second coming, a sign that should be admired. Sooner or later, all sinners will be mourners; but repenting sinners look to Christ, and mourn after a godly sort; and those who sow in those tears shall shortly reap in joy. Impenitent sinners shall see Him whom they have pierced, and, though they laugh now, shall mourn and weep in endless horror and despair. The elect of God are scattered abroad; there are some in all places, and all nations; but when that great gathering day comes, there shall not one of them be missing. Distance of place shall keep none out of heaven. Our Lord declares that the Jews should never cease to be a distinct people, until all things he had been predicting were fulfilled. His prophecy reaches to the day of final judgment; therefore he here, Mat_24:34, foretells that Judah shall never cease to exist as a distinct people, so long as this world shall endure. Men of the world scheme and plan for generation upon generation here, but they plan not with reference to the overwhelming, approaching, and most certain event of Christ's second coming, which shall do away every human scheme, and set aside for ever all that God forbids. That will be as surprising a day, as the deluge to the old world. Apply this, first, to temporal judgments, particularly that which was then hastening upon the nation and people of the Jews. Secondly, to the eternal judgment. Christ here shows the state of the old world when the deluge came. They were secure and careless; they knew not, until the flood came; and they believed not. Did we know aright that all earthly things must shortly pass away, we should not set our eyes and hearts so much upon them as we do. The evil day is not the further off for men's putting it far from them. What words can more strongly describe the suddenness of our Saviour's coming! Men will be at their respective businesses, and suddenly the Lord of glory will appear. Women will be in their house employments, but in that moment every other work will be laid aside, and every heart will turn inward and say, It is the Lord! Am I prepared to meet him? Can I stand before him? And what, in fact, is the day of judgment to the whole world, but the day of death to every one?

.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew Henry agrees with me in the commentary below.

Matthew 24:29-41

Christ foretells his second coming. It is usual for prophets to speak of things as near and just at hand, to express the greatness and certainty of them. Concerning Christ's second coming, it is foretold that there shall be a great change, in order to the making all things new. Then they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds. At his first coming, he was set for a sign that should be spoken against, but at his second coming, a sign that should be admired. Sooner or later, all sinners will be mourners; but repenting sinners look to Christ, and mourn after a godly sort; and those who sow in those tears shall shortly reap in joy. Impenitent sinners shall see Him whom they have pierced, and, though they laugh now, shall mourn and weep in endless horror and despair. The elect of God are scattered abroad; there are some in all places, and all nations; but when that great gathering day comes, there shall not one of them be missing. Distance of place shall keep none out of heaven. Our Lord declares that the Jews should never cease to be a distinct people, until all things he had been predicting were fulfilled. His prophecy reaches to the day of final judgment; therefore he here, Mat_24:34, foretells that Judah shall never cease to exist as a distinct people, so long as this world shall endure. Men of the world scheme and plan for generation upon generation here, but they plan not with reference to the overwhelming, approaching, and most certain event of Christ's second coming, which shall do away every human scheme, and set aside for ever all that God forbids. That will be as surprising a day, as the deluge to the old world. Apply this, first, to temporal judgments, particularly that which was then hastening upon the nation and people of the Jews. Secondly, to the eternal judgment. Christ here shows the state of the old world when the deluge came. They were secure and careless; they knew not, until the flood came; and they believed not. Did we know aright that all earthly things must shortly pass away, we should not set our eyes and hearts so much upon them as we do. The evil day is not the further off for men's putting it far from them. What words can more strongly describe the suddenness of our Saviour's coming! Men will be at their respective businesses, and suddenly the Lord of glory will appear. Women will be in their house employments, but in that moment every other work will be laid aside, and every heart will turn inward and say, It is the Lord! Am I prepared to meet him? Can I stand before him? And what, in fact, is the day of judgment to the whole world, but the day of death to every one?

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Yes, you both generalize. Matthew Henry speaks in philosophic flowery language.

 

[Douggg]

 

[Douggg]