My Journey From Being an Atheist to an Agnostic to an Calvinist Christian

[now faith]

There's also prophetic truth between Star Wars movies. It's just literature to us, perhaps with certain historical events being construed to resemble ancient prophecies.

Really star wars?
You compare a movie to thousands of years of historical study,scientific research,archeology
Ancient scrolls stone,artifacts and a myriad of other studies in language,translation.

Certain historical events being construed to resemble ancient prophecies?

So let me understand,you think that for the past 2000 years all the theologians,linguistics professor's have been fooled by a conspiracy?

So all the works of many men's lifetime is equated to one series of movies that they could not even be presented in chronological order.

It is not the diverse education I am in need of, it is the patience to endure....

You fill in the blanks.

 

[now faith]

Since I did not create what I observe, that would be incredibly stupid.



I'm a deist, not a natural theologian.



I have considered them, I have studied them, I have found they are not impressive. I've given the example of where Matthew sees a prophecy in the Old Testament, so he tries to have Jesus fulfill it. Unfortunately, the author of Matthew can't read Hebrew very well, so he mixes up the words "even" and "and"... the result? Jesus ends up riding two animals at once in the book of Matthew, but one in all the other gospels. I have an entire 1,000 word post about prophecies in the Formal Debate "The Bible is Not the Inspired Word of God" -- see my signature.



Your god is a mix of two gods: El, the chief god of the Canaanites, and Yahweh, a war god of the Canaanites worshiped in Judah. I rule them out. You can see why by clicking on the link in my signature.



I understand you think God is beyond comprehension, but why do you believe the god found in the bible is the one? Why not Zeus or Thor? Why not Allah? Why not the god of the Book of Mormon?

And as for my knowledge of the law in the bible, I have a degree in biblical studies. I understand the law, I gave you an example of a very specific law in which a rape victim must marry her rapist, and you ignored it. This is what you do when you see things in the bible that even you know can't be right. You pick and choose.



So let me get this straight... you're trying to convince me to believe in a god which you only know about through a bible which you have yet to truly study. You don't know jack squat about the thing you're trying to convince me is true. How the heck can you even do that with a straight face?



You haven't studied it, so how in the world could you possibly even know what you think about it? It's like a kindergartner telling me what her favorite Dr. Seuss book is before anybody's read it to her.



To have you actually use that very powerful, God-given brain between your ears rather than exist as a mindless follower, spouting absolute nonsense and buffoonery from the Bronze Age in order to affect the world that I happen to also live in.

You believe in something you don't even know or understand. There is no possible way for you to follow the god of the bible, because you haven't read the bible to see what kind of god it is.



I see. You thought seeing something like God commanding rapists to marry their victims might be my reply? I very much don't think you had any idea something like that was in there. I could give you hundreds of examples of such evil.



Then it is purposefully hidden.



Correct. I will believe in God, just not three-thousand year old Canaanite gods known as El and Yawheh, which you think are real. Somehow, out of over seventy other Canaanite gods, you've decided those two mixed together should be the creator.



You haven't read the bible, so the idea that you could even pretend to determine if someone knows the god from that book is ridiculous. I would give you an F in a bible course, probably while you told me that the grade is something from the world.



Okay, so you're not going to answer the question, and we all know it has everything to do with not wanting to get it wrong (not because you think I know the answer). Additionally, you're telling us that if the bible says there is a firmament in the sky that holds back the rain water (and it does), then you will believe it without question.

Alright, let's try that then:

7 God made the dome and divided the water under the dome from the water above the dome; that is how it was, 8 and God called the dome Sky. So there was evening, and there was morning, a second day. -- Genesis 1:7-8

So, you must now believe that the sky is a dome, holding back the rain water from the ground water. And to believe that, you're going to have to make some changes in your life, otherwise we know you're pretending. First, your phone works by using satellites above the planet... however, we know that satellites certainly can't have crashed through the dome, otherwise the water would have all ran out! You need to throw away your cell phone because it is working against the rules of the bible. It must be from Satan. Secondly, you need to never look at the weather forecast again. It pretends that rain comes from clouds and that cloud patterns are somewhat predictable. The truth is that rain comes from a solid dome in the sky (raqia) and that the windows of it are opened to let the water out when clouds pass by. You will need to discard all weather forecasts because they are idiots who don't even realize the sky is a hard dome.

You ready to truly believe the bible?



Answered.



God may have intervened in your life, but it wasn't an ancient Canaanite god such as you find in the bible. You haven't read the bible yet, so you can stop telling us how wonderful and perfect it is. It's like reviewing a movie after seeing the trailer.

Amazing you point out some obscure translation quirk due to the Greek to Latin then back to
Other dialects of Greek,wow you got me!

What is your foundation to give credibility to the deist notion?

This is a relevant question for this debate because you couch a notions of Bible in comparison to the enlightenment of your reasoning.

So as to the ancient God of the Bible:
Do you realize the majority of people in the world know the God of Abraham?
My how we ignore the 500 pound Gorilla in the room.


Religion Percent
Christianity
 
31.5%
Muslim
 
23.2%
Unaffiliated
 
16.3%
Hindu
 
15.0%
Buddhist *
 
7.1%
Folk
 
5.9%
Other
 
0.8%
Jewish
 
0.2%
Pew Research Center, 2012[2]

Christianity and Muslim both believe in the ancient God of the Bible along with the Hebrew people.
Factor in the undecided that some of them have the same belief and the odds are in favour
Of the Bible.

 

[now faith]

Since I did not create what I observe, that would be incredibly stupid.



I'm a deist, not a natural theologian.



I have considered them, I have studied them, I have found they are not impressive. I've given the example of where Matthew sees a prophecy in the Old Testament, so he tries to have Jesus fulfill it. Unfortunately, the author of Matthew can't read Hebrew very well, so he mixes up the words "even" and "and"... the result? Jesus ends up riding two animals at once in the book of Matthew, but one in all the other gospels. I have an entire 1,000 word post about prophecies in the Formal Debate "The Bible is Not the Inspired Word of God" -- see my signature.



Your god is a mix of two gods: El, the chief god of the Canaanites, and Yahweh, a war god of the Canaanites worshiped in Judah. I rule them out. You can see why by clicking on the link in my signature.



I understand you think God is beyond comprehension, but why do you believe the god found in the bible is the one? Why not Zeus or Thor? Why not Allah? Why not the god of the Book of Mormon?

And as for my knowledge of the law in the bible, I have a degree in biblical studies. I understand the law, I gave you an example of a very specific law in which a rape victim must marry her rapist, and you ignored it. This is what you do when you see things in the bible that even you know can't be right. You pick and choose.



So let me get this straight... you're trying to convince me to believe in a god which you only know about through a bible which you have yet to truly study. You don't know jack squat about the thing you're trying to convince me is true. How the heck can you even do that with a straight face?



You haven't studied it, so how in the world could you possibly even know what you think about it? It's like a kindergartner telling me what her favorite Dr. Seuss book is before anybody's read it to her.



To have you actually use that very powerful, God-given brain between your ears rather than exist as a mindless follower, spouting absolute nonsense and buffoonery from the Bronze Age in order to affect the world that I happen to also live in.

You believe in something you don't even know or understand. There is no possible way for you to follow the god of the bible, because you haven't read the bible to see what kind of god it is.



I see. You thought seeing something like God commanding rapists to marry their victims might be my reply? I very much don't think you had any idea something like that was in there. I could give you hundreds of examples of such evil.



Then it is purposefully hidden.



Correct. I will believe in God, just not three-thousand year old Canaanite gods known as El and Yawheh, which you think are real. Somehow, out of over seventy other Canaanite gods, you've decided those two mixed together should be the creator.



You haven't read the bible, so the idea that you could even pretend to determine if someone knows the god from that book is ridiculous. I would give you an F in a bible course, probably while you told me that the grade is something from the world.



Okay, so you're not going to answer the question, and we all know it has everything to do with not wanting to get it wrong (not because you think I know the answer). Additionally, you're telling us that if the bible says there is a firmament in the sky that holds back the rain water (and it does), then you will believe it without question.

Alright, let's try that then:

7 God made the dome and divided the water under the dome from the water above the dome; that is how it was, 8 and God called the dome Sky. So there was evening, and there was morning, a second day. -- Genesis 1:7-8

So, you must now believe that the sky is a dome, holding back the rain water from the ground water. And to believe that, you're going to have to make some changes in your life, otherwise we know you're pretending. First, your phone works by using satellites above the planet... however, we know that satellites certainly can't have crashed through the dome, otherwise the water would have all ran out! You need to throw away your cell phone because it is working against the rules of the bible. It must be from Satan. Secondly, you need to never look at the weather forecast again. It pretends that rain comes from clouds and that cloud patterns are somewhat predictable. The truth is that rain comes from a solid dome in the sky (raqia) and that the windows of it are opened to let the water out when clouds pass by. You will need to discard all weather forecasts because they are idiots who don't even realize the sky is a hard dome.

You ready to truly believe the bible?



Answered.



God may have intervened in your life, but it wasn't an ancient Canaanite god such as you find in the bible. You haven't read the bible yet, so you can stop telling us how wonderful and perfect it is. It's like reviewing a movie after seeing the trailer.

Amazing you point out some obscure translation quirk due to the Greek to Latin then back to
Other dialects of Greek,wow you got me!

What is your foundation to give credibility to the deist notion?

This is a relevant question for this debate because you couch a notions of Bible in comparison to the enlightenment of your reasoning.

So as to the ancient God of the Bible:
Do you realize the majority of people in the world know the God of Abraham?
My how we ignore the 500 pound Gorilla in the room.


Religion Percent
Christianity
 
31.5%
Muslim
 
23.2%
Unaffiliated
 
16.3%
Hindu
 
15.0%
Buddhist *
 
7.1%
Folk
 
5.9%
Other
 
0.8%
Jewish
 
0.2%
Pew Research Center, 2012[2]

Christianity and Muslim both believe in the ancient God of the Bible along with the Hebrew people.
Factor in the undecided that some of them have the same belief and the odds are in favour
Of the God the Bible.
To assume all of these people believe out of fable or ignorance,is incredibly stupid.

To think one does not transpose their own reality {create} from their opinions is naive.

To simply say something does not exist or is untrue without overwhelming evidence is egotistical.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

So as to the ancient God of the Bible:
Do you realize the majority of people in the world know the God of Abraham?
My how we ignore the 500 pound Gorilla in the room.

No, the majority of people believe in the God of Abraham.

 

[BL2KTN]

Amazing you point out some obscure translation quirk due to the Greek to Latin then back to
Other dialects of Greek,wow you got me!

In other words, you're not going to reply to what I said (and you probably shouldn't given that it appears you didn't understand).

What is your foundation to give credibility to the deist notion?

There are deists who might do a better job of explaining it than me. Read the thoughts of other famous deists, and then I'll be happy to discuss any questions you have. You can google Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Dmitri Mendeleev, Jules Verne, Mark Twain, Neil Armstrong, and Thomas Jefferson.

This is a relevant question for this debate because you couch a notions of Bible in comparison to the enlightenment of your reasoning.

All I'm doing is applying reason and logic to the bible. Also, I post verses that aren't taught in church. It really is just that easy.

So as to the ancient God of the Bible:
Do you realize the majority of people in the world know the God of Abraham?
My how we ignore the 500 pound Gorilla in the room.

Well, the god of Abraham (who almost certainly did not exist) is El Shaddai. El Shaddai means El of the Mountain, and he is the chief god of the Canaanite pantheon. His name is even in Isra'el, which means "May El persevere". Most people don't know any of that, they simply know that they believe in a creator, and the creator's name in English is commonly given as "God". For Muslims it's "Allah", for Christians it's "El" or "Yahweh," and Allah really isn't compatible with El/Yahweh. So no, Muslims and Christians don't believe in the same god. Christians have this strange three gods in one god, one's the dad of the other, the third one is a spirit/ghost thing. Muslims have this cheap rip-off by Mohammad who retells the biblical stories to make his own religion a la Joseph Smith.

So, what you think is a five-hundred pound gorilla really isn't tough for me. It's very simple.

Religion Percent
Christianity
 
31.5%
Muslim
 
23.2%
Unaffiliated
 
16.3%
Hindu
 
15.0%
Buddhist *
 
7.1%
Folk
 
5.9%
Other
 
0.8%
Jewish
 
0.2%
Pew Research Center, 2012[2]

Deism isn't usually considered a religion, so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out.

Christianity and Muslim both believe in the ancient God of the Bible along with the Hebrew people.
Factor in the undecided that some of them have the same belief and the odds are in favour
Of the Bible.

Well, I've shown that what you're saying isn't true. I think furthermore that choosing what you believe based on how many people believe it is a real quick way to believe in any number of foolish things.

 

[now faith]

No, the majority of people believe in the God of Abraham.

The Name The Meaning
Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enos Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalaleel The Blessed God
Jared To Descend
Enoch Teaching - Dedicating
Methuselah His Death Shall Bring
Lamech Despairing
Noah Rest
When this Orthodox Rabbi put the pieces together, he read this:

Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow, The Blessed God Shall Descend Teaching - Dedicating His Death Shall Bring Despairing Rest.

Could this be Yeshua Messiah or for English translation Jesus.
Some how God knows English people do not speak Hebrew do you suppose it's ok to call him abba Father.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The Name The Meaning
Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enos Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalaleel The Blessed God
Jared To Descend
Enoch Teaching - Dedicating
Methuselah His Death Shall Bring
Lamech Despairing
Noah Rest
When this Orthodox Rabbi put the pieces together, he read this:

Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow, The Blessed God Shall Descend Teaching - Dedicating His Death Shall Bring Despairing Rest.

Could this be Yeshua Messiah or for English translation Jesus.
Some how God knows English people do not speak Hebrew do you suppose it's ok to call him abba Father.

None of this is relevant to my post.

 

[now faith]

In other words, you're not going to reply to what I said (and you probably shouldn't given that it appears you didn't understand).



There are deists who might do a better job of explaining it than me. Read the thoughts of other famous deists, and then I'll be happy to discuss any questions you have. You can google Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Dmitri Mendeleev, Jules Verne, Mark Twain, Neil Armstrong, and Thomas Jefferson.



All I'm doing is applying reason and logic to the bible. Also, I post verses that aren't taught in church. It really is just that easy.



Well, the god of Abraham (who almost certainly did not exist) is El Shaddai. El Shaddai means El of the Mountain, and he is the chief god of the Canaanite pantheon. His name is even in Isra'el, which means "May El persevere". Most people don't know any of that, they simply know that they believe in a creator, and the creator's name in English is commonly given as "God". For Muslims it's "Allah", for Christians it's "El" or "Yahweh," and Allah really isn't compatible with El/Yahweh. So no, Muslims and Christians don't believe in the same god. Christians have this strange three gods in one god, one's the dad of the other, the third one is a spirit/ghost thing. Muslims have this cheap rip-off by Mohammad who retells the biblical stories to make his own religion a la Joseph Smith.

So, what you think is a five-hundred pound gorilla really isn't tough for me. It's very simple.



Deism isn't usually considered a religion, so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out.



Well, I've shown that what you're saying isn't true. I think furthermore that choosing what you believe based on how many people believe it is a real quick way to believe in any number of foolish things.

If Deism is not religion,then what qualifications do you have to make your assumption.
You have shown nothing but a circular logic fallacy based on your experience as a Deist,
In which by your own admission does not qualify.
You would be better prepared as a atheist,since they have at least a position to stand on.

Atheist deny the existence of God all together,you say there is a creator based on my understanding so your God and Bible do not validate my opinion.

Oh well gotta charge my battery,God bless

 

[BL2KTN]

If Deism is not religion,then what qualifications do you have to make your assumption.

I make no assumptions. I use reason and logic to determine truth, testable and disprovable.

You have shown nothing but a circular logic fallacy based on your experience as a Deist,
In which by your own admission does not qualify.

Quote my admission. I find your reasoning skills lacking greatly.

You would be better prepared as a atheist,since they have at least a position to stand on.

Again, I find your reasoning skills lacking greatly. Atheism is the position that no divine exists. Deism is the position that the divine does exist, created the universe, but that reason, logic, and enlightenment are our means by which to become better; that scripture and tradition are not greater than provable truth.

Atheist deny the existence of God all together,you say there is a creator based on my understanding so your God and Bible do not validate my opinion.

Atheists do not just deny the existence of "God," they deny the existence of all gods. I deny the existence of Yahweh/El, but accept the concept of a Creator. Yahweh and El of the bible do not validate my opinion, but they also do not invalidate it. I deny their existence because they are immature, petty, misogynistic, racist, sadistic, genocidal, infanticidal, and rapists. They do not in any way resemble a Creator that could construct the universe with quantum physics, nuclear fusion, etc. They are two of over seventy gods from the Canaanite pantheon of gods, of which you would believe at least sixty-eight are ridiculous to believe in as real.

 

[now faith]

None of this is relevant to my post.

True

 

[now faith]

I make no assumptions. I use reason and logic to determine truth, testable and disprovable.



Quote my admission. I find your reasoning skills lacking greatly.



Again, I find your reasoning skills lacking greatly. Atheism is the position that no divine exists. Deism is the position that the divine does exist, created the universe, but that reason, logic, and enlightenment are our means by which to become better; that scripture and tradition are not greater than provable truth.



Atheists do not just deny the existence of "God," they deny the existence of all gods. I deny the existence of Yahweh/El, but accept the concept of a Creator. Yahweh and El of the bible do not validate my opinion, but they also do not invalidate it. I deny their existence because they are immature, petty, misogynistic, racist, sadistic, genocidal, infanticidal, and rapists. They do not in any way resemble a Creator that could construct the universe with quantum physics, nuclear fusion, etc. They are two of over seventy gods from the Canaanite pantheon of gods, of which you would believe at least sixty-eight are ridiculous to believe in as real.

Its all pride !
As you say a creator that created the universe let's look a bit.
Do you think your deeds and values matter to the creator?
Do your righteous deeds impress the Creator of all things?
My reasoning skills are capable enough to know better than put God in a box.
How do you reason that your enlightenment is correct since you have only your logic and reason to base your assumption.
I can imagine deist squabbling over their God since each has their own view.

Your accusations of the God of Abraham are no surprise.
I have read the Bible cover to cover several times,and I know the the generations of Noah's son Ham was cursed.
This would but the canaan you are referring to and is not the God of the Bible.

Good by this is a waste of time.
Thank you for the discussion no hard feelings

 

[BL2KTN]

Its all pride !

And now that you've gotten that out of your system, let's see what real responses you came up with.

As you say a creator that created the universe let's look a bit.
Do you think your deeds and values matter to the creator?
Do your righteous deeds impress the Creator of all things?

Do I think my deeds and values matter to the Creator? I would say that is undetermined, but it's in my best interest to account for the possibility, as well as in my best interest for actual well-being. Is the Creator impressed? I would doubt it given the enormity of the universe and the tiny abilities which I possess.

My reasoning skills are capable enough to know better than put God in a box.

Yes, but apparently not capable enough to know better than to put him/her in a book.

How do you reason that your enlightenment is correct since you have only your logic and reason to base your assumption.

Cosmological argument, likelihood of the simulation theory of the universe, complexity of physics... I think I'm right about the whole deism thing, but I'm okay with being wrong about it. I don't think there's any way that two of the seventy ancient Canaanite gods are real and meshed together though... so I'm not too worried about you being correct.

Your accusations of the God of Abraham are no surprise.

As is you not answering them.

I have read the Bible cover to cover several times,and I know the the generations of Noah's son Ham was cursed.
This would but the canaan you are referring to and is not the God of the Bible.

DNA reveals that ancient Hebrews were no different than the Canaanites in ancestry. And while they were supposed to be from Ur and then Egypt, the evidence says otherwise. The chief Canaanite god El's name is found in the names of the characters of the bible before they should have ever encountered the Canaanites and heard of their god. Israel, Ishmael, Methusael, Mehujael. It's all Canaanite god homages in their names with no Egyptian influence whatsoever.

Eventually the Hebrew people would see themselves as separate from the Canaanites. In trying to forge their own identity, it is not surprising that their priests would put a pretend curse on the Canaanites around them in the pretend genealogies of Genesis. The proof, however, is in the language.

Good by this is a waste of time.
Thank you for the discussion no hard feelings

Okay.

 

[dhh712]

You haven't read the bible yet, so you can stop telling us how wonderful and perfect it is. It's like reviewing a movie after seeing the trailer.

I have read the Bible; I'm not sure where you're coming up with the idea that I haven't (I also don't remember saying it was wonderful and perfect--I think you are putting words in my mouth). I may not understand it completely yet, but what I understand is only that which God has given me to know. Understanding the Bible as the word of God is a matter of faith (it is a matter of trusting God; faith is to take someone's word for it, and our faith rests upon Christ, the incarnate word of God). I do not discuss biblical concepts with people who do not know God because their ideas of it to me are irrelevant; it matters not that you have a degree or have studied the Bible all your life--the fact still stands (as far as I can understand) that you do not know the Biblical God and therefore discussing His Holy Word with you will be pointless. You will always have a skewed view of it because you haven't been given the ability to understand any of it spiritually.

Then it is purposefully hidden.

It has been purposefully hidden and that is because God has preordained some to life and He has preordained others to death.

I understand you think God is beyond comprehension, but why do you believe the god found in the bible is the one? Why not Zeus or Thor? Why not Allah? Why not the god of the Book of Mormon?

Because God gave me the ability to believe that the Bible is the true word of God--I don't know how it works, but I was once unable to believe and now I do. My subjective reasoning for it is that I experienced an incredible change in my life and it seemed to me was given an entirely different perspective of the world; and also the doctrines of the Bible were explained in a way to me that they make perfect sense (even if the only way it makes sense is that it cannot make sense right now) of what I have experienced of the world. Those are my reasons which have no objectivity and, being no philosopher, they may be reasons only good enough for someone who doesn't have much advanced knowledge of logic and reason.

And as for my knowledge of the law in the bible, I have a degree in biblical studies. I understand the law, I gave you an example of a very specific law in which a rape victim must marry her rapist, and you ignored it. This is what you do when you see things in the bible that even you know can't be right. You pick and choose.

I ignored it not because I ignore those parts of the Bible but because I do not discuss biblical concepts with those that are enemies of God (you may have understanding of the law rationally and I did not mean to imply that you did not understand them as they are written; yet you do not have a relationship with God, from what I can understand, and this is necessary to have in order to have any spiritual understanding). I have my own ideas about those verses which are a part of my theology, but you either have stated or likely will state they are not valid. That they are not valid to you is of no concern to me.

To have you actually use that very powerful, God-given brain between your ears rather than exist as a mindless follower, spouting absolute nonsense and buffoonery from the Bronze Age in order to affect the world that I happen to also live in.

You believe in something you don't even know or understand.

I do not use worldly reasoning to try to comprehend God; I would much rather be a mindless follower of Him, if that is what He has given me to be, than be a detractor of Him based on worldly reasoning. That I once was. God's mercy knows no limits however. That I believe in something that I don't understand (completely) is true; I do understand some of Him, but only that which He has given me to know--there are lots of things that really don't make much sense to me about Him when I look at it from a logical perspective. I would maintain that I know Him though, in the way that He has revealed Himself to me by what I can understand of Him in His word. You may have a different opinion of that.

It is the world I live in too, though I would rather not live in it. I think it will not be long before non-believers will start to persecute the believers again because, though we have a concern for the world, our main concern is God. Non-believers find this a dangerous idea to not place the world first. I imagine there will soon be a time when Christ-centered Christians will again be imprisoned and perhaps even put to death.

Okay, so you're not going to answer the question, and we all know it has everything to do with not wanting to get it wrong (not because you think I know the answer). Additionally, you're telling us that if the bible says there is a firmament in the sky that holds back the rain water (and it does), then you will believe it without question.

Alright, let's try that then:

7 God made the dome and divided the water under the dome from the water above the dome; that is how it was, 8 and God called the dome Sky. So there was evening, and there was morning, a second day. -- Genesis 1:7-8

So, you must now believe that the sky is a dome, holding back the rain water from the ground water. And to believe that, you're going to have to make some changes in your life, otherwise we know you're pretending. First, your phone works by using satellites above the planet... however, we know that satellites certainly can't have crashed through the dome, otherwise the water would have all ran out! You need to throw away your cell phone because it is working against the rules of the bible. It must be from Satan. Secondly, you need to never look at the weather forecast again. It pretends that rain comes from clouds and that cloud patterns are somewhat predictable. The truth is that rain comes from a solid dome in the sky (raqia) and that the windows of it are opened to let the water out when clouds pass by. You will need to discard all weather forecasts because they are idiots who don't even realize the sky is a hard dome.

You ready to truly believe the bible?

I didn't answer it because I do not discuss biblical concepts with God's enemies. The correct answer is not something which God has revealed to me about how He made the world, nor do I think it is an important theological concept. It seems very insignificant to squabble over particular details about the creation of the world (as though the account were to be taken as a scientific description). It seems that your reaction to reading those verses in Genesis might have been to realize that there is no actual dome in the sky so then you have the understanding that what is written there is not true. Someone who understands the Bible as the word of God and the only authority for truth will read them and think, well it seems that I just don't understand how this verse is true, but I will wait on the Lord to make it known to me, if it is His will that I should understand the truth of it.

In no way do I not believe that those verses in Genesis are not the actual way in which God made the earth--I may not understand how they are true, but that is what is written. I do not verify the Bible by looking to the world to see if what is said in the Bible is true; rather, I take the Bible as the Truth and if the world doesn't match up to it, then there is something either not true about the world, or there is something missing that I don't understand yet.

That is about as far I will go in discussing biblical concepts with you. I don't mean to say that no Christian should discuss biblical concepts with non-believers (though I don't think it is a good idea for them to as belief in God won't be accomplished by providing a logical argument for Him). Like I had mentioned though, I do not have yet an in-depth knowledge of the Bible (apparently this might be where you got the idea I hadn't read it--as though one should understand the Bible completely by one reading of it, or even two. It takes variable amounts of time for people to have a firm grasp of the Bible, some may be quicker at it than others. I apologize for being a slow learner, but I trust that God will give me the ability in His own time) so it is really pointless for me to try to have much of a discussion about them.

 

[BL2KTN]

I have read the Bible; I'm not sure where you're coming up with the idea that I haven't (I also don't remember saying it was wonderful and perfect--I think you are putting words in my mouth).

If only for that I am just beginning to study the Bible, so have not a thorough and complete knowledge of it except that which the Lord has given me to understand.

One of these two statements does not match up. If you've read the bible (as in the entire bible), then you aren't "just beginning to study the bible."

Understanding the Bible as the word of God is a matter of faith (it is a matter of trusting God; faith is to take someone's word for it, and our faith rests upon Christ, the incarnate word of God). I do not discuss biblical concepts with people who do not know God because their ideas of it to me are irrelevant; it matters not that you have a degree or have studied the Bible all your life--the fact still stands (as far as I can understand) that you do not know the Biblical God and therefore discussing His Holy Word with you will be pointless. You will always have a skewed view of it because you haven't been given the ability to understand any of it spiritually.

It is very likely that you didn't even know that the biblical god's name is both El Shaddai and Yahweh. It is likely that you do not know that El Shaddai means "El of the Mountain." It is unlikely that you knew both El and Yahweh are Canaanite gods in a pantheon of seventy. Please do not lecture me on who the biblical god is if you are "only beginning to study the bible." Do not tell me that although I have a degree in studying the bible, and thus the god portrayed in the bible, that you know more about it than I do while you are "only beginning to study the bible." It is absolute hubris.

It has been purposefully hidden and that is because God has preordained some to life and He has preordained others to death.

Then Yahweh is a sicko who makes us go through life pretending we have choices when he's already picked who he's going to set on fire.

Because God gave me the ability to believe that the Bible is the true word of God--I don't know how it works, but I was once unable to believe and now I do.

It's called psychology, and you could have done it with anything you'd like if you tried hard enough.

My subjective reasoning for it is that I experienced an incredible change in my life and it seemed to me was given an entirely different perspective of the world; and also the doctrines of the Bible were explained in a way to me that they make perfect sense (even if the only way it makes sense is that it cannot make sense right now) of what I have experienced of the world. Those are my reasons which have no objectivity and, being no philosopher, they may be reasons only good enough for someone who doesn't have much advanced knowledge of logic and reason.

I'm sure somebody told you all the nice verses in the bible that made the whole thing make sense to you. I wish life was that simple. The truth is that the bible does have some nice things in it, but it also advocates rape, slavery, misogyny, racism, etc. It is not based on actual history, and it is a very bloody, awful compilation of texts. There are, however, good things in it that are truthful. Anything that can trick people must have some shred of truth to it.

I ignored it not because I ignore those parts of the Bible but because I do not discuss biblical concepts with those that are enemies of God (you may have understanding of the law rationally and I did not mean to imply that you did not understand them as they are written; yet you do not have a relationship with God, from what I can understand, and this is necessary to have in order to have any spiritual understanding). I have my own ideas about those verses which are a part of my theology, but you either have stated or likely will state they are not valid. That they are not valid to you is of no concern to me.

So although Yeshua (Jesus) said not to judge lest you be judged, you have judged me to be an enemy of God (who you think is Yahweh), and thus you will not discuss a part of the bible you knew nothing about and would not advocate (even though you say you follow all the bible). What a twisted view...

I do not use worldly reasoning to try to comprehend God; I would much rather be a mindless follower of Him, if that is what He has given me to be, than be a detractor of Him based on worldly reasoning. That I once was. God's mercy knows no limits however. That I believe in something that I don't understand (completely) is true; I do understand some of Him, but only that which He has given me to know--there are lots of things that really don't make much sense to me about Him when I look at it from a logical perspective. I would maintain that I know Him though, in the way that He has revealed Himself to me by what I can understand of Him in His word. You may have a different opinion of that.

How sad to follow a three-thousand year old Canaanite god that wants you to be mindless rather than enlightened. Calling wisdom and knowledge "worldly reasoning" makes it no less pathetic. I would think that any sort of good god would want his/her followers to be smarter, wiser, enriched... not the opposite.

It is the world I live in too, though I would rather not live in it. I think it will not be long before non-believers will start to persecute the believers again because, though we have a concern for the world, our main concern is God. Non-believers find this a dangerous idea to not place the world first. I imagine there will soon be a time when Christ-centered Christians will again be imprisoned and perhaps even put to death.

I'll go ahead and put in your prescription for Xanax.

I didn't answer it because I do not discuss biblical concepts with God's enemies.

"Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. For the way you judge others is how you will be judged — the measure with which you measure out will be used to measure to you." -- Jesus (Yeshua)

Do you only follow Jesus (Yeshua) when it is convenient?

The correct answer is not something which God has revealed to me about how He made the world, nor do I think it is an important theological concept. It seems very insignificant to squabble over particular details about the creation of the world (as though the account were to be taken as a scientific description). It seems that your reaction to reading those verses in Genesis might have been to realize that there is no actual dome in the sky so then you have the understanding that what is written there is not true. Someone who understands the Bible as the word of God and the only authority for truth will read them and think, well it seems that I just don't understand how this verse is true, but I will wait on the Lord to make it known to me, if it is His will that I should understand the truth of it.

I think we actually agree now. You know there's no dome, and the only thing you can do is say "I just don't understand how this verse is true." You knowing there is no dome over us supercedes what the bible says. I see now how you cope with such issues.

In no way do I not believe that those verses in Genesis are not the actual way in which God made the earth--I may not understand how they are true, but that is what is written. I do not verify the Bible by looking to the world to see if what is said in the Bible is true; rather, I take the Bible as the Truth and if the world doesn't match up to it, then there is something either not true about the world, or there is something missing that I don't understand yet.

Planes and satellites are obviously not true. And the planets are not true either (they're actually part of the dome. We've been fooled, I tell ya'. And all of this stuff about a universe... not true. The world is flat (a dome can't go over a ball), the sky is hard, planes and cell phones are delusions, clouds don't have water, and all the stars are just a few thousand feet above us in a hard, metal structure: welcome to the world you live in. Now that you truly believe what the bible says, and you have put away your "worldly reasoning," it's going to be one heck of a trip.

That is about as far I will go in discussing biblical concepts with you. I don't mean to say that no Christian should discuss biblical concepts with non-believers (though I don't think it is a good idea for them to as belief in God won't be accomplished by providing a logical argument for Him). Like I had mentioned though, I do not have yet an in-depth knowledge of the Bible (apparently this might be where you got the idea I hadn't read it--as though one should understand the Bible completely by one reading of it, or even two. It takes variable amounts of time for people to have a firm grasp of the Bible, some may be quicker at it than others. I apologize for being a slow learner, but I trust that God will give me the ability in His own time) so it is really pointless for me to try to have much of a discussion about them.

Something changed your mind about discussing it - 'cause you didn't feel this way when you started it. =)

Enjoy those doubts! Or enjoy the dome, whichever the case may be =D

 

[now faith]

Genesis: 10. 1. Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. 2. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3. And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4. And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. 6. And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. 7. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan. 8. And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. 10. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11. Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah, 12. And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city. 13. And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, 14. And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim. 15. And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth, 16. And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite, 17. And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite, 18. And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad. 19. And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha. 20. These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations. 21. Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born. 22. The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. 23. And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash. 24. And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber. 25. And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. 26. And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazar-maveth, and Jerah, 27. And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah, 28. And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba, 29. And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan. 30. And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east. 31. These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. - Bible Offline

 

[now faith]

Please refer to the generations of Ham,he is the Father of the Canaanites.
Sodom and Gomorrah was from his seed as well as the enemies of Isreal.

The generations of Ham were cursed by Noah.

Japeth began the Gentile people.

Shem began Isreal.

This is why Jew and Gentile share in the promise God gave to Abraham,Shem and Japeth were not cursed.

The DNA would be the same due to a common father for all three Noah.
DNA does not detect a Spiritual curse.

The Bible is very easy to understand but many skip over origins of people when reading.

I posted this for others to have a reference of the Biblical origins,not to debate.

 

[now faith]

Genesis: 9. 24. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. 26. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. 27. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. - Bible Offline

 

[BL2KTN]

I posted this for others to have a reference of the Biblical origins,not to debate.

In other words: "Do not discuss how I am wrong."

 

[Cearbhall]

So let me understand,you think that for the past 2000 years all the theologians,linguistics professor's have been fooled by a conspiracy?

Wait, do you not understand what it means to not be Christian?

I wouldn't necessarily say conspiracy, though. I'm sure there were ancient people who actually believed the things they came up with, since they lacked the scientific answers.

 

[Faith Unites]

Is there a scientific answer for someone raising form the dead?