My Jesus Challenge

[holo]

I've been studying science a lot lately and it seems their assumption of materialism clouds their thinking. The best example is their claim that the subjective experience of consciousness is merely and illusion or an emergent property of matter or some such. But to my thinking, consciousness exists in it own right, as something beyond the properties of matter, space, time, energy, and etc. In other words, it exists apart from the physical realm, in the spiritual realm.

But consciousness is influenced directly by chemicals, hormones, even electromagnetism. So I find it more reasonable to think it's a product of things like that. Consciousness seems to go out of existence in deep sleep or narcosis as well, returning when the brain wakes up again. So scientifically speaking I don't think there's a good case for consciousness being somehow external to brain function.

 

[holo]

Seems the alternative is that the universe, reality, merely happened, by chance really, with no rational conscious personal intellect guiding things. Seems to me, the universe seems guided and designed somehow. Even the fact of its existence having conscious creatures.

Even if one doesn't believe in evolution, nature is clearly extremely brutal. So as you say in another post, suffering seems to be "built in". To me that suggest that it's not designed, or at least not designed by someone priorities the well-being of conscious creatures. The only way to reconcile that with the idea of a loving God, as far as I can tell, is if all that suffering is rectified or compensated for in another world, i.e. after death.

 

[the iconoclast]

What do you think of this pastor @the iconoclast? He seems like has quite a following on YouTube. I think he is a good example of why one cannot ignore isolated Biblical passages about violence, even if they have historical context.

Hey hey zoness

Sorry for the delay. Been very busy.

Im not in a habit of viewing recommendations. Please forgive my policy.

Im still a bit tied up with kylie and will be delayed. Dont worry i have not forgotten about you. Im very interested in you.

How about you tell me what do you think about him when we continue our discussion. I very much look forward to it my dear.
Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

I see you try to shame other posters for liking my posts.
How does the conquest of the Promised Land NOT qualify as extreme violence sanctioned and even COMMANDED by YHVH?

Hey hey the bane, the dreaded enemy of the conservative.

Not shaming anyone fun one. I made a statement or action expressing disapproval for liking logical fallacies, made by you.

Please excuse me I will be delayed in our conversation. I look forward to continuing it and have definitely not forgotten you!

There is more fun to have.

Cheers

 

[dlamberth]

Show me how the bible can justify extreme violence?

As I look around at the Earth in how we have raped and desecrated her, I also ask how the Bible justifies the extreme violence done.

 

[the iconoclast]

As I look around at the Earth in how we have raped and desecrated her, I also ask how the Bible justifies the extreme violence done.

Hey hey

Sorry i did forget about our conversation. Ill try to get to you as soon as possible.

Sorry friend and please be patient with me.

Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

As I look around at the Earth in how we have raped and desecrated her, I also ask how the Bible justifies the extreme violence done.

Hey hey you marvel?

The Bible does not justify raping and desecrating the earth - correct me if im wrong, show me?

Im curious my dear. You are included when you say 'we'.

Please indulge me friend, how do you justify raping and desecrating earth?

Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

Do you think there is any scenario where the command "kill every last one , including non-combatants, children and infants to preserve your ritual purity" qualify as anything other than atrocity?

Hey hey jane im back, surprised?

R u ready for round 2? Lets look at 1 sam 15:1-3.

And Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Sam 15:1‑3)

Lets explore this text together

Cheers

 

[dlamberth]

The Bible does not justify raping and desecrating the earth -

I agree whole hardheartedly with you. So where's the cry against such violence against the Earth from the Christian community? The same with the wars we are engaged in.

 

[the iconoclast]

So where's the cry against such violence against the Earth from the Christian community?

Hey hey my friend

Every sunday at church or anytime a christian prays to God and feels this. What would you like us to do?

Cheers you marvel

 

[dlamberth]

Every sunday at church or anytime a christian prays to God and feels this. What would you like us to do?

You don't need to do anything. I'm only agreeing with you that the Bible does not condone violence. But what I see is that Christians do. And to me there's a huge disconnect there.

 

[the iconoclast]

You don't need to do anything. I'm only agreeing with you that the Bible does not condone violence. But what I see is that Christians do. And to me there's a huge disconnect there.

Hey hey you gem

Essentially a discussion about pacifism and warranted force, is pacifism a christian teaching?

Cheers

 

[dlamberth]

Hey hey you gem

Essentially a discussion about pacifism and warranted force, is pacifism a christian teaching?

Cheers

Well, your the one who said that the Bible does not justify violence. So you tell me?

 

[the iconoclast]

Well, your the one who said that the Bible does not justify violence. So you tell me?

Hey hey my dear

Please excuse my attention to detail, however i said The Bible does not justify raping and desecrating the earth, so please indulge me, is pacifism a christian teaching?

Cheers you

 

[dlamberth]

Hey hey my dear

Please excuse my attention to detail, however i said The Bible does not justify raping and desecrating the earth, so please indulge me, is pacifism a christian teaching?

Cheers you

I believe that Jesus was a pacifist. But not Christian teachings. But to be honest, the way I see things is that first there is Christ. And than there is the Church. And it's only occasionally that they cross paths. This is an example.

If there is a cry from the Christian community to the desecration we have do to the Earth as well as the wars that's gone on my entire life, it's very muffled. A lot of innocent people have violently died during that time with hardly any outcry from the Christian community. I don't understand why they are good with it, especially when as you say the Bible does not justify it.

 

[the iconoclast]

I believe that Jesus was a pacifist

Hey hey my dear

John 2:13-16
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!”

What say you?

If there is a cry from the Christian community to the desecration we have do to the Earth as well as the wars that's gone on my entire life, it's very muffled

What makes you think it is muffled?

A lot of innocent people have violently died during that time with hardly any outcry from the Christian community.

Could you give me an example?

Cheers you beautiful diamond

 

[Zoness]

Hey hey zoness

Sorry for the delay. Been very busy.

Im not in a habit of viewing recommendations. Please forgive my policy.

Im still a bit tied up with kylie and will be delayed. Dont worry i have not forgotten about you. Im very interested in you.

How about you tell me what do you think about him when we continue our discussion. I very much look forward to it my dear.
Cheers

Fair enough, I basically never watch the videos that get posted here so I shouldn't expect others to.

I think pastor Stephen Anderson is a hateful preacher. Though his following is large as his beliefs are largely endorsed by Christian fundamentalists. Taking one specific quote from the video:

"I don't think he [misgenders Jenner deliberately] should be saved, I pray he dies and goes to hell."

Many Christians don't agree with his approach but they agree with him fundamentally which I find problematic. I suspect over the years a number of members here have wished the same thing for me.

At any rate, on my original discussion point; Christians are just as capable of violence as anyone else and I think violence is depicted frequently enough in the Bible to justify Christian violence. As long as one builds the narrative that they're like the Israelites then that gives them carte blanche to copy their behavior.

I wouldn't want to be a neighbor of the Israelites.

 

[dlamberth]

Hey hey my dear

John 2:13-16
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!”

I see this as a moral protest. His protest was directed towards an idea. He was not out to hurt people.

What makes you think it is muffled?

By the actions, or lack there of, of the Christian community.

Could you give me an example?

The silence heard.

 

[the iconoclast]

I see this as a moral protest. His protest was directed towards an idea. He was not out to hurt people.

Hey hey dlamberth

Would this action be the sction of a pacifist?

By the actions, or lack there of, of the Christian community.

So what would you like us to do?

The silen

What silence heard? How so?

Cheers my dear

 

[the iconoclast]

At any rate, on my original discussion point; Christians are just as capable of violence as anyone else and I think violence is depicted frequently enough in the Bible to justify Christian violence.

Hey hey my dear.

So what is the solution?

Can violence be justified?

Cheers hey