My Irreducible Complexity Challenge

[AV1611VET]

But the emotional response for the situation is there nontheless

The peace of GOD which surpasses all understanding shall guard our heart and our mind IN CHRIST JESUS

That is my response

Oh, I see what you mean now.

Okay.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, then, why are we trying to help Him now?

Aren't we His ambassadors?

 

[miknik5]

Aren't we His ambassadors?

Yes

 

[Larniavc]

Maybe that's what the flight attendants could be trained to tell the passengers to calm them down ... ya think?

Evolutionist1: Hey, Joe, wasn't that an engine part I just saw fall off?
Evolutionist2: Oh, oh. ABORT TAKEOFF! ABORT TAKEOFF!
Flight Attendant: Don't worry, sir. These things become land carriages when things like this happen.
Evolutionist2: Whew! Thanks!
Captain: This is your captain speaking, brace for impact!
Evolultionist1: Here we go. L'Aquila all over again!

It would not take off in such a state.

 

[miknik5]

It would not take off in such a state.

We all "took off" and in such a state as we were

 

[AV1611VET]

Help HIM to do what? I thought HE is SOVEREIGN

Some think they're ambassadors for Christ, while telling others they are mutant copy errors made in the image & likeness of God, and implying an ape died on the Cross to save us from sins, and that the fact that it's AD, and we celebrate Christmas and Easter, while singing songs to uplift Jesus Christ don't mean a hoot, since Allah could have ambassadors doing the same thing.

Not to mention the idea that JEPD ... not JAH ... wrote the Bible.

 

[miknik5]

Some think they're ambassadors for Christ, while telling others they are mutant copy errors made in the image & likeness of God, and implying an ape died on the Cross to save us from sins, and that the fact that it's AD, and we celebrate Christmas and Easter, while singing songs to uplift Jesus Christ don't mean a hoot, since Allah could have ambassadors doing the same thing.

Not to mention the idea that JEPD ... not JAH ... wrote the Bible.

In response to that ISAIAH 8 is sufficient

 

[VirOptimus]

Sir, I don't know if you're interested in this conversation at all or not - tell me straight if not, please. Do you think that we can see in nature, an intelligence of unimaginable complexity and harmony, that we can call "laws of nature", or "God" as a personified and anthropomorphic entity. No matter how we approach this phenomenon that we both do observe, and not matter in which terms we express the same idea. Do you think so? Thinking most most broadly. I know you probably reject "God" as an "old man in heaven" idea, but not in its manifestation in the utmost perfection, balance, consistency and beauty in the world we know? If you understand what I mean.

You know, there's been sooo much fighting-fighting just for the sake of fighting, or playing all sorts of games from all sides for whatever self-puffing reasons, that sometimes I get tired and just want to sit down and find a common ground of our humanity and zeal to know more. I'm sincere.

No, I dont.

I reject all metaphysics.

 

[miknik5]

To THE TESTIMONY and THE Law

Many profess to claim to know "the truth" yet deny THE TRUTH

It's why those born of HIS SPIRIT can discern and test the spirits

For not all hold to THE TESTIMONY of JESUS

 

[AV1611VET]

It would not take off in such a state.

It will if it reaches V2.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Aren't we His ambassadors?

We are Christ's ambassadors to plead to all people, please reconcile with God.

 

[miknik5]

Well are Christ's ambassadors to plead to all people, please reconcile with God.

Yes. showing no partiality

GOD is the ONE who brings the increase

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

No, I dont.

I reject all metaphysics.

I get it. However, can't you try and step back a mile or so, and look at the forest and not the trees? General view, above any terminology, of the phenomenon of this world from our place as observers? Example: you do accept the body of laws of nature, don't you? I like to call it God. I can call it "Qudai", no difference. Right? Just my way of thinking. Or you insist on only a certain way of describing it? You and I agree on F = m * a, or 2 +2 =4, or "repetition causes development of conditional reflex" etc., don't we??? I don't want you to subscribe to any metaphysics "under any gravy" (as we say in my language). I'm not pulling you into any fairy tales, just hard reality we see, feel, know. I will not turn around and arrogantly declare you a believer in God, or anything. Just trying to change the tone of conversation from confrontational to unifying, if you see what I mean...

Sorry for my persistence

 

[AV1611VET]

Well are Christ's ambassadors to plead to all people, please reconcile with God.

Yes.

 

[VirOptimus]

I get it. However, can't you try and step back a mile or so, and look at the forest and not the trees? General view, above any terminology, of the phenomenon of this world from our place as observers? Example: you do accept the body of laws of nature, don't you? I like to call it God. I can call it "Qudai", no difference. Right? Just my way of thinking. Or you insist on only a certain way of describing it? You and I agree on F = m * a, or 2 +2 =4, or "repetition causes development of conditional reflex" etc., don't we??? I don't want you to subscribe to any metaphysics "under any gravy" (as we say in my language). I'm not pulling you into any fairy tales, just hard reality we see, feel, know. I will not turn around and arrogantly declare you a believer in God, or anything. Just trying to change the tone of conversation from confrontational to unifying, if you see what I mean...

Sorry for my persistence

Sorry, general apolgetic isnt allowed here on this subforum.

I dont begrudge you your faith or want you to accept my views, I certainly want to keep the debate civil and no hostility intended.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Sorry, general apolgetic isnt allowed here on this subforum.

I dont begrudge you your faith or want you to accept my views, I certainly want to keep the debate civil and no hostility intended.

Ah OK - rules are rules! Thx for your reply and support. That much is enough for me.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

...General view, above any terminology, of the phenomenon of this world from our place as observers? Example: you do accept the body of laws of nature, don't you? I like to call it God. I can call it "Qudai", no difference. Right?

Well, no; wrong - not 'above terminology' - calling it God or 'Qudai' is very definitely terminology.

But why would anyone do that? Calling the laws of nature 'God', with all the baggage that word entails, is just asking for confusion. What next, General Relativity as the Father, Thermodynamics as the Son, and Quantum Mechanics as the Holy Spirit? Should we worship the laws of nature? do they work miracles??

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Well, no; wrong - not 'above terminology' - calling it God or 'Qudai' is very definitely terminology.

But why would anyone do that? Calling the laws of nature 'God', with all the baggage that word entails, is just asking for confusion. What next, General Relativity as the Father, Thermodynamics as the Son, and Quantum Mechanics as the Holy Spirit? Should we worship the laws of nature? do they work miracles??

Well, I was already asked not to create off-topic discussion. But am itching to answer - moderators please close your ears

All of that is terminology, no doubts. I was asking to go into general meaning, underlying phenomena, objective reality - from position of most most broad view of things. To find any common ground. Not that I asked to agree to anything from religion. Many ways to describe same things sometimes, if you look way beyond specifics. In my language we say, to become abstract from smth? Kind of, let's forget our disagreements and emotions about all the trillions of particulars. It's hard, I know!!! Baggage is too too heavy to pretend it's not there. BUT if we don't attempt that, never any kind of understanding will happen and our conversation is but a "useless vibration of air". It will be like eternally quarreling Lilliputians over narrow or wide end of egg shell to break from.

Don't call certain observable manifestations/laws of nature as Father - Son - Spirit analogy, no. Too much to ask, too ridiculous or heretical to most people, such fusion, and no need. But science did borrow notions, say, "field". Make smth concrete and physical (as field with flowers) into "Magnetic Field". So, not too far fetched.

So, my spontaneous suggestion would be. Father - as most basic underlying intelligence, the very fact of existence of the inevitable laws of nature (not an idea usually explicitely presented by science, but nevertheless a de-facto acsiom). Son - all matter. Spirit - the forces of interaction. So, "God" is not so correlating to particular divisions of our knowledge of the observable world (Theory of Relativity / Thermodynamics / Quantum Physics) - which all fundamentally have the same object of study.

God (English) = Qudai (Kazakh), also we can say "sporttyq qudaiy" or "a god of sport" or "qudaiymai" as exclamation of disapproval "oh my God" etc. etc. All sorts of words, all sorts of meanings. If we imagine an alien sitting among us, trying to listen and figure out what we are talking about, will he sometimes laugh at our disagreements???

Sorry for wordiness - idea is simple, hard to explain as we people are really not used to try and come to each other, rather to separate, and to stay apart.

 

[Larniavc]

We all "took off" and in such a state as we were

I don't understand your meaning: are you saying we are all missing a limb?

I also don't understand how a one winged plane could fly.

I'm not getting the analogy.

 

[Larniavc]

It will if it reaches V2.

Please clarify V2 for me?