My Gospel by Paul

[Guojing]

Did you just completely ignore my explanation?

I did consider what you say, but I was just trying to confirm whether your statement "Handling makes it clearer that what's in mind is how the Bible is used as a tool rather than giving the idea that the Bible is supposed to be chopped into pieces."

is that what you interpret that they are implying, instead of them actually saying that?

 

[Guojing]

The EOB by native Greek speaking scholars translates it "handling." That should be enough.

Where in this passage that you used from them, actually has the term handling?

ὀρθοτομέω (ὀρθός, τέμνω) found elsewh. independently of the NT only Pr 3:6; 11:5, where it is used w. ὁδούς and plainly means ‘cut a path in a straight direction’ or ‘cut a road across country (that is forested or otherwise difficult to pass through) in a straight direction’, so that the traveler may go directly to his destination (cp. Thu. 2, 100, 2 ὁδοὺς εὐθείας ἔτεμε; Hdt. 4, 136 τετμημένη ὁδός; Pla., Leg. 7, 810e; Plut., Galba 24, 7; Jos., C. Ap. 1, 309) Then ὀρθοτομεῖν τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας would prob. mean guide the word of truth along a straight path (like a road that goes straight to its goal), without being turned aside by wordy debates or impious talk 2 Ti 2:15. For such other mngs. as teach the word aright, expound (it) soundly, shape rightly, and preach fearlessly, s. M-M.—DELG s.v. τέμνω. TW. Spicq.
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 722.

 

[Fervent]

I did, I was just trying to confirm whether your statement "Handling makes it clearer that what's in mind is how the Bible is used as a tool rather than giving the idea that the Bible is supposed to be chopped into pieces."

is that what you interpret that they are implying, instead of them actually saying that?

I explained how I came to that conclusion from what the entry says, which if you're simply going to ignore such explanations and ask questions that are already answered there's no point in further discussion.

 

[Guojing]

I explained how I came to that conclusion from what the entry says, which if you're simply going to ignore such explanations and ask questions that are already answered there's no point in further discussion.

I see, thanks for clarifying it was your interpretation from that paragraph.

The way the 2 of you present your points, you were implying those BDAG guys were saying what you are saying.

 

[Sorn]

Where are you finding anywhere, "the Samaritans were Jews"? And if they were why did Jesus tell them not to go to them?

Never said they were Jews but that they descended from them & intermarried (with non jews, implied)

Who Were the Samaritans?

During the ministry of Jesus there was contact with a group of people known as the Samaritans. The Samaritans were half-Jew, half-Gentile. The race came about

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Der Alte]

Where in this passage that you used from them, actually has the term handling?

The Bible quote in my post is the Bible linked to here on CF. But if you follow the link to the EOB I linked to post #325 you will see "handling." And once again I remind you the correct word for "divide" was used 4 times in the NT which have never been questioned. Also if orthotomeo supposedly means "dividing" what exactly is being divided from what?

 

[Guojing]

The Bible quote in my post is the Bible linked to here on CF. But if you follow the link to the EOB I linked to post #325 you will see "handling." And once again I remind you the correct word for "divide" was used 4 times in the NT which have never been questioned. Also if orthotomeo supposedly means "dividing" what exactly is being divided from what?

To me it's simple, between exodus to Paul, God only reveal truth to the nation of Israel. If a gentile wanted to go to God, he has to go thru Israel, so there is no need to divide any truth.

But when Paul arrived with the mystery, gentiles can now go to God without Israel. Thus there is now truth that is relevant to us that is different from the previous truth revealed to Israel.

That is why one needs to rightly divide, or to make a straight cut.

Hope you are clear about my beliefs, you are of course free to disagree

 

[bling]

Never said they were Jews but that they descended from them & intermarried (with non jews, implied)

Who Were the Samaritans?

During the ministry of Jesus there was contact with a group of people known as the Samaritans. The Samaritans were half-Jew, half-Gentile. The race came about

www.blueletterbible.org

OK, but the point you are trying to make is: since Jesus told the 12 (not including Paul) to go to the Jews only that means they were never to go to the Gentiles and Paul took a different Gospel to the Gentiles. The problem with that is the fact Jesus specifically said when telling them to go to the Jews only said do not go to the Samaritans, yet later Christ does go to the Samaritans and right after Steven's stoning Christs and Peter and John are going to the Samaritans big time so were they preaching a different Gospel to the Samaritans?
Christ also taught Gentiles and Peter went to Gentiles, so it would seem Christ's command to the 12 prior to Christianity was limited to that time and not limited to a different Gospel.

 

[Guojing]

Christ also taught Gentiles and Peter went to Gentiles, so it would seem Christ's command to the 12 prior to Christianity was limited to that time and not limited to a different Gospel.

Jesus did not "teach" gentiles, he granted 2 gentiles their healing requests because they blessed Israel, and under the Covenant of Law, gentiles who blessed Israel will be blessed by God (Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 27:29, Numbers 24:9.)

Peter made a one off trip to Cornelius "under protest".

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus did not "teach" gentiles,

He talked to a Samaritan woman about worship and revealed to her that he was the Messiah.
He taught crowds of people, Matthew 13:1; how do you know those crowds did not include Gentiles?

Peter did not visit Cornelius under protest, he went after receiving a vision.

 

[Guojing]

He talked to a Samaritan woman about worship and revealed to her that he was the Messiah.
He taught crowds of people, Matthew 13:1; how do you know those crowds did not include Gentiles?

Samaritans are half Jews.
Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5 made it clear the crowd could not have included gentiles.

 

[Strong in Him]

Samaritans are half Jews.
Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5 made it clear the crowd could not have included gentiles.

They were still enemies of Israel - hated and probably unclean.
In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells them not to go to the Samaritans, yet on other occasions, he healed Samaritans. And when James and John wanted to destroy the Samaritans by fire, he would not let them.

Again, he taught a Samaritan woman and revealed to her that he was the Messiah.

 

[Sorn]

They were still enemies of Israel - hated and probably unclean.
In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells them not to go to the Samaritans, yet on other occasions, he healed Samaritans. And when James and John wanted to destroy the Samaritans by fire, he would not let them.

Again, he taught a Samaritan woman and revealed to her that he was the Messiah.

He was not going to ignore a Samaritan (or anyone) that was right there, especially one that showed faith after being challenged, however as general rule, His mission was to the Jews, a minor diversion didn't change that.

 

[Strong in Him]

He was not going to ignore a Samaritan (or anyone) that was right there, especially one that showed faith after being challenged, however as general rule, His mission was to the Jews, a minor diversion didn't change that.

As a general rule, maybe - after all, he was born, and lived, in Israel.
But his ministry included Samaritans and Gentiles; even if only 2 or 3, they were included.

 

[Guojing]

But his ministry included Samaritans and Gentiles; even if only 2 or 3, they were included.

Again, did Jesus meant what he said in Matthew 15:24, or was he making a joke there?

 

[Strong in Him]

Again, did Jesus meant what he said in Matthew 15:24, or was he making a joke there?

Who said anything about a joke?
Jesus healed Samaritans and other gentiles, and revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah - fact.
Make of it what you will, that's what happened.
I have said that, yes, his ministry probably was primarily to the Israelites - but he did not refuse, or deny, Gentiles.

And can you remind me what the point of this argument was; are you saying that little of Jesus' teaching was to Gentiles, so it is not for us today? I can't think of any other reason for you being so adamant on this point.

 

[Sorn]

Who said anything about a joke?
Jesus healed Samaritans and other gentiles, and revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah - fact.
Make of it what you will, that's what happened.
I have said that, yes, his ministry probably was primarily to the Israelites - but he did not refuse, or deny, Gentiles.

And can you remind me what the point of this argument was; are you saying that little of Jesus' teaching was to Gentiles, so it is not for us today? I can't think of any other reason for you being so adamant on this point.

The thing is that any teaching Jesus did to Samaritans or anyone else non-jewish, would have been to tell them, as He did to the Samaritan woman that salvation if of the Jews John 4:22. That is to be included in the saved people, at the time, one needed to become a proselyte, ie convert to Judaism. Jesus had not died yet, the Jews had not yet rejected Jesus and they might not have at that point, Jesus would have acted in good faith & not until Jesus had died and the Jews rejected Him finally at the witnessing of Stephen, did God then finally and dramatically extend salvation directly to the gentiles via Paul.

 

[Guojing]

Who said anything about a joke?
Jesus healed Samaritans and other gentiles, and revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah - fact.
Make of it what you will, that's what happened.
I have said that, yes, his ministry probably was primarily to the Israelites - but he did not refuse, or deny, Gentiles.

And can you remind me what the point of this argument was; are you saying that little of Jesus' teaching was to Gentiles, so it is not for us today? I can't think of any other reason for you being so adamant on this point.

If his ministry did include gentiles, he could not have said Matthew 15:24.

 

[Der Alte]

If his ministry did include gentiles, he could not have said Matthew 15:24.

And if Jesus' ministry which He passed on to them through His disciples did not include Gentiles He could not have said,

Matthew 28:18-20
(18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

 

[bling]

Jesus did not "teach" gentiles, he granted 2 gentiles their healing requests because they blessed Israel, and under the Covenant of Law, gentiles who blessed Israel will be blessed by God (Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 27:29, Numbers 24:9.)

Peter made a one off trip to Cornelius "under protest".

Your not saying anything about Jesus, Peter and John going to the Samaritans, whom Jesus equally told His disciples not to go to.

Matt 15: 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Jesus talks about the “Great Faith” of this Gentile while shortly afterwards Jesus will talk about the his disciples Matt. 16: 8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith…

Jesus taught a great and wonderful lesson to his disciples and this gentile woman about who He is and how some Gentiles have extremely strong faith, which is also shown with the centurion.

What “gospel” did Peter take to Cornelius and when did he learn of a second gospel?