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No, works are not required.You are contradicting yourself with these 2 statements
No, works are not required.
Works show that we have faith, yes.
Works are not required to prove to God that we have faith. Children, people with learning disabilities, folk in prison, people on their deathbeds may have a genuine conversion but be unable to do works.
And the work that God requires is to believe in the one that he sent, John 6:29.
Paul had a calling to take the Gospel to Gentiles (uncircumcised), Peter was called to take the Gospel to Jews (circumcised).Galatians 2:7-9 stated those 2 gospels clearly,
No doubt without reading it in context or trying to understand it, because that would be "spiritualising" it.again I take the KJV literally there.
Ditto.You are not going to change your mind,
Paul had a calling to take the Gospel to Gentiles (uncircumcised), Peter was called to take the Gospel to Jews (circumcised).
They may have explained/presented it in different ways to fit their different audiences; that doesn't mean there were 2 different Gosdpels.
No doubt without reading it in context or trying to understand it, because that would be "spiritualising" it.
Ditto.
I'm not going to change my mind about the truth, that Jesus, the Apostles and Paul all preached ONE Gospel; no.
No.If works are not required to show faith, than works are separable from faith.
I've rejected your explanation, yes.So I have explained to you the difference.
You rejected the explanation.
That is fine, we can agree to disagree and move on.
I do not have a problem with a believer choosing to be baptized, adult or otherwise.I am not saying Baptism was a celebration event, but something Christians need to do, to help them.
Do you have a problem being adult believer water baptized?
No.
In some cases - people with learning disabilities, on death row/death beds or maybe in jail - people may be unable to DO works, which will show their new faith. That faith is still valid and I am certain such people would be saved - like the thief on the cross.
The work that God requires is to believe in the one that he sent, John 6:29.
"Just a pointless exercise, then, eh? Right up there with communion."Above my pay grade, and irrelevant in any case. Unless you simply want to say that a commandment from our Lord may be igored if it doesn't jibe with our symbology or traditions.
Just a pointless exercise, then, eh? Right up there with communion.
we're pretty much free to do as we please, then, right? "Do as thou wilt..."?
That's a lot of trouble too, though, isn't it?
I think I've got it reduced down to sitting at home and drinking beer. Pretty good plan, huh?
No. You're not reading my posts properly.So works and faith is separable
Do you now agree with that?
That describes having faith, a work is something that is outwardly visible, ie an action that others can see or perceive (whether they do see it is another matter).Believing in and accepting Jesus is doing God's work and his will, John 6:40.
That's not what Jesus said.That describes having faith, a work is something that is outwardly visible, ie an action that others can see or perceive (whether they do see it is another matter).
Faith or believing in something is a change in your mental state or attitude to something, it is not a work.
true, though the pharisees were likely thinking what actions were needed, things that they could do, that others can see etc., whereas Jesus replied in essence that the most important thing is first & foremost to believe in the one God sent, so to recognize & believe in Him.That's not what Jesus said.
The Pharisees asked, "what must we do to do the work that God requires?" Jesus answered, "the work of God is this; to believe in the One that he sent", John 6:28-29.
The Pharisees were doing plenty of works - keeping the law, tithing, teaching, helping others to keep the law.
But they rejected Jesus.
He was standing right there in front of them. They had just seen him feed more than 5000 people with bread and some fish, and talk about himself as the bread from heaven.So it could be that what Jesus was referring to was that they should study and understand their scripture & its prophecies so that they could recognize the messiah when he came and then believe in him. That's how they would believe in Him.
Well the feeding of the 50000 had been the previous day in another location so those He spoke to may bot have seen it but probably heard about it in any case.He was standing right there in front of them. They had just seen him feed more than 5000 people with bread and some fish, and talk about himself as the bread from heaven.
Jesus had already told them, "you search the Scriptures because you think that, in them, you have eternal life. These very Scriptures testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life", John 5:39-40. And, "if you believed Moses then you would believe me, for he wrote about me," John 5:46.
First off: God looks at the heart of a person to determine saved or not saved, which I cannot do. What they do and say does reflect what is on their heart, so what are they saying or doing?So is a person saved if they are not baptized but believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior who is God the Son and died for our sins, was buried and rose again so we will too? If you can be a Christian without being baptized then baptism is a celebration only, it may be a good one but a celebration only. To say otherwise means its a work & we are back to works for salvation.
Also re 'to help them', well reading the bible helps then too, having fellowship with other Christians helps them too, is someone not saved if they don't do these things??
Yes, but our faith cannot depend on what he might, perhaps, have meant on any occasion.Perhaps He was admonishing them, possibly with some sarcasm, in effect saying, "you ask about works but how about you work on yourselves first, get your heart right, the posture of your heart right so that you are receptive to the message"
He could also have called the pharisees 'misguided unbelieving self serving community leaders' or other words to that effect but He didn't, instead He called them a 'brood of vipers', i don't think they were literal snakesI am quite sure that Jesus, the teacher, was capable of saying "get your heart right" if that's what he'd meant. When he explained the parable of the Sower to his disciples he said, quite plainly, "the seed that falls on good soil represents those who receive the word and understand it", Matthew 13:23.
But he didn't say that here. He was asked "what must we do to do the work that God requires?" and answered, "the work of God is to believe in the one whom he sent."
He could also have called the pharisees 'misguided unbelieving self serving community leaders' or other words to that effect but He didn't, instead He called them a 'brood of vipers', i don't think they were literal snakes
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