My Galileo Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Opposed based on the evidence, or opposed based on them incurring the Church's wrath right alongside him?

Opposed based on the evidence.

 

[mark kennedy]

It's easy to blame the Catholic church for Galileo's predicament; but how many scientists in Galileo's day opposed Galileo's heliocentric model of the solar system?

How long was it from the time Galileo presented his ideas to the time consensus of opinion occurred in his favor?

Galileo had the second telescope ever invented, magnifying the heavens some 35x. He saw moons around Jupitor and some other things but thats not what got him into trouble. It came down to physics and the principles of motion, a new science in his day and the people arguing against him at Pisa failed to refute him so they resorted to incoherent theological arguments. He famously said the Bible teaches us how to get to heaven not how the heavens work. One of my personal heros, wisdom is vindicated by her children. By the way had there been no Protestant Reformation there would have been no Scientific Revolution.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I love the fact that Galileo still got it right in the end. Despite all the heliocentricists looking up to him as some sort of hero for the theory he popularised, the irony is he recanted this false belief prior to his death.

Imagine how annoyed evolutionists would be, had Darwin too recanted his evolutionism prior to death. It would be like Einstein admitting relativity was just a scam.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Opposed based on the evidence.

Well, there's the rub, isn't it? Those who were opposed because of the very real fear of Church retribution aren't about to admit that, are they?

 

[JackRT]

I love the fact that Galileo still got it right in the end. Despite all the heliocentricists looking up to him as some sort of hero for the theory he popularised, the irony is he recanted this false belief prior to his death.

Wasn't this under coercion?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wasn't this under coercion?

His false beliefs, of course, were made under coercion by the Church... his later recantation, however, was of his own free will.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Then why does the Catholic church get the blame for holding out on the changeover to heliocentrism from geocentrism for so long, if scientists did it too?

The Catholic Church gets the blame because they were the ones who ordered Galileo to be under house-arrest.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Is this information you need to answer the question?

Considering who's asking the question... yes.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

It doesn't matter what other scientists thought. They had no power over him.

WHY did the church care? How much was it willing to do to hold on to its power?

As far as I'm concerned,,,the church should let its opinion be known about scientific discoveries but not get involved.

It should let its opinion be known about political movements, but not get involved (in the sense of entering govt).

The church simply buckled to the opinion of the majority concerning scientific matters. Sadly they let the philosophers of the day use them for the philosophers own ends.

The Jesuit priests were willing to look through the telescope and agreed with Galileo. Even Galileo in a letter to one of his friends (Kepler) complained not about the church, but about his fellow philosophers and astronomers.

"My dear Kepler, I wish that we might laugh at the remarkable stupidity of the common herd. What do you have to say about the principal philosophers of this academy who are filled with the stubbornness of an asp and do not want to look at either the planets, the moon or the telescope, even though I have freely and deliberately offered them the opportunity a thousand times? Truly, just as the asp stops its ears, so do these philosophers shut their eyes to the light of truth.[9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

"Jesuit astronomers, experts both in Church teachings, science, and in natural philosophy, were at first skeptical and hostile to the new ideas; however, within a year or two the availability of good telescopes enabled them to repeat the observations. In 1611, Galileo visited the Collegium Romanum in Rome, where the Jesuit astronomers by that time had repeated his observations. Christoph Grienberger, one of the Jesuit scholars on the faculty, sympathized with Galileo’s theories, but was asked to defend the Aristotelian viewpoint by Claudio Acquaviva, the Father General of the Jesuits. Not all of Galileo's claims were completely accepted: Christopher Clavius, the most distinguished astronomer of his age, never was reconciled to the idea of mountains on the Moon, and outside the collegium many still disputed the reality of the observations. In a letter to Kepler of August 1610,[7] Galileo complained that some of the philosophers who opposed his discoveries had refused even to look through a telescope."

We agree, sadly the church let itself be swayed by politics and got involved in a matter they should never have been involved in. The church should let it's opinions be known, then let the individuals within the church take matters from there. In an ideal world this would work fine. Sadly again this is not an ideal world and other factions have their lobbying power paying for votes. The church actually has no choice but to get involved, else the individual voices would be drowned in the sea of lobbying power wielded by the corrupt....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Actually it does, if scientists supported the Catholic church's stance on geocentrism with charts and graphs and epicycles and so on and so forth.

In so doing, they perpetuated an error and gave the Catholic church scientific information that backed up their [erroneous] interpretation of Scripture.This is true, but they also could serve in the capacity of an expert witness against Galileo at his trial.I would assume because Galileo challenged a major doctrine of theirs.What does this have to do with anything?No argument there.Personally, I believe God intervened in Galileo's life ...

Genesis 50:20a But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good,

... in that, under house arrest, Galileo was able to finish two of his most important works unhindered.

See, when you break up my thoughts like that, you make them say stuff I didn't want to say.

That's not very scientific of you.

Oh...was that the idea??

 

[GodsGrace101]

If you where interested in the truth you would study the subject yourself, but you arent. You are just interested in scorung points to preach your weird brand of christianity.

There's ANOTHER brand of weird Christianity?
Gosh. I have a whole list.
Could you tell me that of @AV1611VET
in 25 words or less?

 

[GodsGrace101]

But back to the question...

What was the question again?

 

[GodsGrace101]

The church simply buckled to the opinion of the majority concerning scientific matters. Sadly they let the philosophers of the day use them for the philosophers own ends.

The Jesuit priests were willing to look through the telescope and agreed with Galileo. Even Galileo in a letter to one of his friends (Kepler) complained not about the church, but about his fellow philosophers and astronomers.

"My dear Kepler, I wish that we might laugh at the remarkable stupidity of the common herd. What do you have to say about the principal philosophers of this academy who are filled with the stubbornness of an asp and do not want to look at either the planets, the moon or the telescope, even though I have freely and deliberately offered them the opportunity a thousand times? Truly, just as the asp stops its ears, so do these philosophers shut their eyes to the light of truth.[9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

"Jesuit astronomers, experts both in Church teachings, science, and in natural philosophy, were at first skeptical and hostile to the new ideas; however, within a year or two the availability of good telescopes enabled them to repeat the observations. In 1611, Galileo visited the Collegium Romanum in Rome, where the Jesuit astronomers by that time had repeated his observations. Christoph Grienberger, one of the Jesuit scholars on the faculty, sympathized with Galileo’s theories, but was asked to defend the Aristotelian viewpoint by Claudio Acquaviva, the Father General of the Jesuits. Not all of Galileo's claims were completely accepted: Christopher Clavius, the most distinguished astronomer of his age, never was reconciled to the idea of mountains on the Moon, and outside the collegium many still disputed the reality of the observations. In a letter to Kepler of August 1610,[7] Galileo complained that some of the philosophers who opposed his discoveries had refused even to look through a telescope."

We agree, sadly the church let itself be swayed by politics and got involved in a matter they should never have been involved in. The church should let it's opinions be known, then let the individuals within the church take matters from there. In an ideal world this would work fine. Sadly again this is not an ideal world and other factions have their lobbying power paying for votes. The church actually has no choice but to get involved, else the individual voices would be drowned in the sea of lobbying power wielded by the corrupt....

The church simply buckled to the opinion of the majority concerning scientific matters. Sadly they let the philosophers of the day use them for the philosophers own ends.

The Jesuit priests were willing to look through the telescope and agreed with Galileo. Even Galileo in a letter to one of his friends (Kepler) complained not about the church, but about his fellow philosophers and astronomers.

"My dear Kepler, I wish that we might laugh at the remarkable stupidity of the common herd. What do you have to say about the principal philosophers of this academy who are filled with the stubbornness of an asp and do not want to look at either the planets, the moon or the telescope, even though I have freely and deliberately offered them the opportunity a thousand times? Truly, just as the asp stops its ears, so do these philosophers shut their eyes to the light of truth.[9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

"Jesuit astronomers, experts both in Church teachings, science, and in natural philosophy, were at first skeptical and hostile to the new ideas; however, within a year or two the availability of good telescopes enabled them to repeat the observations. In 1611, Galileo visited the Collegium Romanum in Rome, where the Jesuit astronomers by that time had repeated his observations. Christoph Grienberger, one of the Jesuit scholars on the faculty, sympathized with Galileo’s theories, but was asked to defend the Aristotelian viewpoint by Claudio Acquaviva, the Father General of the Jesuits. Not all of Galileo's claims were completely accepted: Christopher Clavius, the most distinguished astronomer of his age, never was reconciled to the idea of mountains on the Moon, and outside the collegium many still disputed the reality of the observations. In a letter to Kepler of August 1610,[7] Galileo complained that some of the philosophers who opposed his discoveries had refused even to look through a telescope."

We agree, sadly the church let itself be swayed by politics and got involved in a matter they should never have been involved in. The church should let it's opinions be known, then let the individuals within the church take matters from there. In an ideal world this would work fine. Sadly again this is not an ideal world and other factions have their lobbying power paying for votes. The church actually has no choice but to get involved, else the individual voices would be drowned in the sea of lobbying power wielded by the corrupt....

Thanks for agreeing with me.
I don't believe it would have made any difference if those in favor of heliocentricity had supported Galileo. I believe the church would have had him stopped anyway because IT didn't want to be wrong...and I don't think it would have allowed itself to apologize for making the mistake of believing in geocentricity.

This was my whole point.

Nowadays, the church is friendly with science...recognizing it as a different belief system; they say -

Science tells us how
Religion tells us why

I think we're better off today.

 

[VirOptimus]

There's ANOTHER brand of weird Christianity?
Gosh. I have a whole list.
Could you tell me that of @AV1611VET
in 25 words or less?

I’m sure he will do it himself, he loves attention.

 

[SkyWriting]

What was the question again?

The OP

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/my-galileo-challenge.8076479/

 

[SkyWriting]

See, when you break up my thoughts like that, you make them say stuff I didn't want to say.

That's not very scientific of you.

Oh...was that the idea??

Chat forums are sadly not considered scientific journals.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Chat forums are sadly not considered scientific journals.

Thankfully!
I'm not much for science...what about you?

 

[SkyWriting]

Thankfully!
I'm not much for science...what about you?

Most of my career in R&D.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Most of my career in R&D.

What's R&D?

 

[SkyWriting]

What's R&D?

Research, testing and Development of oils, adhesives, and plastic products.

Like D&D gaming but without the dice.