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Steady rain..? You think that it was just a usual average steady rain..? You need to look at pictures that accurately show what a deluge of water is.
And you don't sound like you're sure that it was all of the earth? Nothing could stop the furious flow of water. The amount is greater than multiplied storms of torrential rain has ever given. Rain like that at the force that it came down creates furious winds. Or haven't you ever watched videos of a hurricane.. if you haven't actually been in one.
After the furious deluge.. no doubt about it. But in spite of your choosing to ignore the effects of a deluge I'm still talking about it.
Tides only happen when there's dry land. Tides don't have the strong force that the deluge had. You're still using usual average flow of water to make your claims.
The flood of Noah made sure that all dry land was quickly turned to thick mud and several feet in depth. That could be another reason why water creatures died as well as land creatures. They took in muddy water instead of clear water.
A tsunami doesn't come anywhere near equal to that of a furious deluge of water that quickly covers the land. It would happen faster than any tsunami that has occurred post-Noah's flood.
The fast flowing water coming out of a fire hydrant can uproot vegetation and grass.. so a furious deluge by sheer unmeasurable volume can push any earth and rocks, trees and anything out of it's way.. and pile them up into mountains and carve out deep valleys. That's definitely more damage than some by comparison minor erosion.
What ground level?, what land..? It was quickly and completely submerged under all that furious water. Nothing to indicate if the ark was even in the same geographical location where the ark had been built. Most likely it was on a large area of flat land, but they finally landed on a mountain. Who knows how far they were carried along in distance from their original spot of land by the fast moving waters?
A deluge would have been described this way. With such a forceful downpour the sinners of Noah's flood would of been knocked to the ground and pelted so hard that it would've opened up their skin. Or try the needles and pins setting in your shower some time. Or do a google search for images designated deluge force. If anyone did try to stand in it they'd be immediately pushed down to the ground.
The sinners of Noah's flood couldn't of run for safety, because the downpour upon them was holding them to the ground, to raise up even a little bit for most of them weakened by inability to get a decent breath of air, it would been like trying to lift up the upper level of roadway that fell on the cars of the lower level during the California earthquake.
All the sinners of Noah's flood could do was drown because they couldn't get air, all they breathed in would be the water.
Not only that but there was also the fountains of the deep that burst open and spewed out more water. Now with all of that going on, plus the deluge from above.. there's no way that it could have been described as less than a tsunami effect as you claim was all that it was.
The calm happened only when the deluge was over.
That's actually verses 21 & 22. Verse 23 says "Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."The SPIRIT lied.
1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1 Kings 22:23 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
You're making it sound like God was recruiting an angel to lie in His behalf.You can quibble and say "but God didn't actually lie, he got somebody else to do the lying for him" but that's very weak sauce. God not only allowed, he required and facilitated the lies.
No wonder you don't want me to look beyond Jonah 3, of I might read this ...If you require a direct lie from the mouth of God, look no further than Jonah 3 and the (non) destruction of Nineveh.
Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Not at all. If God didn't need the lie, why did he facilitate it? God had a problem and the spirit said "I can get what you want by lying." God likes the plan so much that he not only facilitates it, he then takes credit by telling everyone that he put the spirit to work telling lies. That claim in itself isn't 100% truthful, is it?You're making it sound like God was recruiting an angel to lie in His behalf.
Here's what it says ...
1 Kings 22:20a And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead?
You're making it sound like, when an angel came forward telling God he was going to use a lie, that God thought:
"Whew! Finally! Someone willing to lie for me!"
Ah, OK. So you want to have God making empty threats and not meaning what he said? What do we call it when somebody says they'll do one thing but does another?No wonder you don't want me to look beyond Jonah 3, of I might read this ...
Jeremiah 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
Jeremiah 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
If that's the way you see it, and that's the way you understand it happened, then I have to ask you this:Not at all. If God didn't need the lie, why did he facilitate it? God had a problem and the spirit said "I can get what you want by lying." God likes the plan so much that he not only facilitates it, he then takes credit by telling everyone that he put the spirit to work telling lies.
It matters not whether you or I think it happened or not. What matters is what the bible claims, and the translation you prefer quite categorically says that God lied. Other translations don't indicate that, but KJV does.If that's the way you see it, and that's the way you understand it happened, then I have to ask you this:
Do you believe that's what happened?
If not, mind if I don't either?
But if so, then why are you an agnostic?
How many years did this verse predate Jonah?You are aware that Jonah pre-dates Jeremiah by about 200 years, right?
Jonah got caught off-guard, did he?Bungle_Bear said:Are you also trying to claim that God covered his mistake by making this proviso at a later date? Surely he could have said something when Jonah made his (apparently empty) threat.
Then why are we having this conversation?It matters not whether you or I think it happened or not.
How many years did this verse predate Jonah?
Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Indeed. And my point was that he had the opportunity to say "In 40 days Nineveh will be destroyed if you do not change your ways" but for some reason the words in bold never came out. What came out was "In 40 days Nineveh will be destroyed". No caveat, no proviso, no condition.Jonah got caught off-guard, did he?
Jonah 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jonah 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Looks to me like he knew something you didn't.
Because you made a claim you cannot support and I called you on it.Then why are we having this conversation?
Nope.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
You were there?And my point was that he had the opportunity to say "In 40 days Nineveh will be destroyed if you do not change your ways" but for some reason the words in bold never came out.
And round we go.You were there?
If not, how do you know they didn't?
Jonah 3:1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
Jonah 3:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
So you're no longer an agnostic, I take it?Were you there? If not, I'll trust what your Bible claims he said. After all, the Bible is the inspired word of God, isn't it?
No, I'm still agnostic. I'm also better at playing your game than you are.So you're no longer an agnostic, I take it?
It's the Bible way of looking at Noah's 'deluge'-flood. But you probably could've figured that I'd say something like that.Well, that's an interesting way of looking at it.
It's the Bible way of looking at Noah's 'deluge'-flood. But you probably could've figured that I'd say something like that.
There was a time when the ark set down on mount Ararat, so Moses had a look around where they were at and let's just imagine that he said that it looked like a nice place to stop.
You know that the Bible tells us not to be weary, not to quit.. and it also tells us that there's a time to discuss and a time to end the discussion.
I think that concerning our exchange too. I do hope that on this, you would agree.
Yet you both share an adoration of a literal Genesis. One wonders what good it does you. Why not cut to the chase and adore Christ?We're so far apart on the subject that yes, it is fruitless to continue.
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