If you've read your bible, you already know what it says about slaves. It's up to you - follow the OT or follow your conscience.
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If you've read your bible, you already know what it says about slaves. It's up to you - follow the OT or follow your conscience.Well I gotta get one first, and that ain't gonna happen until I give in and believe the Bible condones it.
Then I'll have to lobby to have the 13th Amendment repealed.
Then I'll have to learn how to treat them and how not to.
Maybe you can give me some pointers? instead of just telling me the Bible condones it?
The point was simply to correct a misapprehension with factual information.That's interesting. What exactly is your point? That earlier Americans were bad people? Of are you just stating it as is without a point? I think in your vacuum you present Christianity is both responsible for the starting and ending slavery.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:- follow the OT or follow your conscience.
In the 1600s you were either a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew. There were like, three atheists and they were very, very quiet. Remember, there was no other concept of how the universe came to be or how the planet came to be or how life began other than "goddidit." The only question was which god or how that god accomplished it. The founders of the United States might very well have been atheists had they known about Evolution. But they did not. So many were deists. They believed that God started things off and then left us alone. This, "slavers were not Christian" is disingenuous and false. The men who brought slaves to the Americas were most certainly Christian. You can't lie your way out of the reprehensible behavior of men who claimed to follow Christ.You aren’t one, right?
I hope so.The men who brought slaves to the Americas were most certainly Christian.
That's interesting. What exactly is your point? That earlier Americans were bad people? Or are you just stating it as is without a point? I think in your vacuum you present Christianity is both responsible for the starting and ending slavery.
The men who brought slaves to the Americas were most certainly Christian.
I hope so.
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Then it must be because most would give them the benefit of a doubt for being "Christians.""Hope" is *not* response *I* would have had to Phred's fact when I was a Christian. "True, but shameful." seems to be more what most would say.
I understand.This was your best post of the thread:AV1611VET said:[ deleted ]
Christianity is an abstract, and it is not something that does things or does not do things, its cause is carried out by people, so it is people, namely Christians, that did *nothing* to stop it. But I don't think we can fairly say "all Christians" did *nothing*. To start this is presented in an American vacuum but even in that vacuum are you so bold to claim there was no Christian who opposed slavery practices in such a way that are not counted among the did *nothing* group? what is your motivation behind such claims if indeed those are your claims? This an association fallacy.I'm not saying christianity *caused* slavery in the Americas, but it did *nothing* to stop it. The claim that started this discussion within this thread that christianity is the great cleanser of slavery from the continent is vacuous without considering how it did nothing to prevent slavery and how often the pro-slavery forces were able to credibly wield the bible in their favor.
There is no reason to think all slaves were treated unjustly or that the systems governing them also were unjust.
Hmmm ... I like that.A slave is by definition being treated unjustly. There is no "good slavery." This literal whitewashing of the practice is abhorrent.
Christianity itself sees all Christians as slaves under Christ who is our master but Christ is not viewed as an oppressor and the relationship is not seen as oppressive. master and slaves analogies are used often to show that relationship and the bible encourages to serve in the position you are called in with respect not malice or contempt.
I'm really sorry but your justifying the ownership of Human Beings. Slavery was a system here in America where Human Beings were capital. It was a system where people were abducted from their homes and families were put into forced labor in a far away land to the financial benefit of their owners. They were bought and sold and traded away not unlike with what we do with cars today. Children were separated from parents when sold and women were used as sexual slaves. I don't care how you spin it, which you are doing, Human ownership of other Human Beings in any form is wrong. There are NO just systems in Human ownership. Period!There is no reason to think all slaves were treated unjustly or that the systems governing them also were unjust.
William Shakespeare said:The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
Hmmm ... I like that.
That's why they were "servants," not "slaves."
And to treat a servant as if he/she were a slave would incur God's wrath.
This uncited definition is too one dimensionalA slave is by definition being treated unjustly. There is no "good slavery." This literal whitewashing of the practice is abhorrent.
It's a matter of your presuppositionsI find this view... (umm, how can I say this and retain my posting privileges?) ...disturbing and not in the way that makes you think, but rather in the way that makes you walk away. So I did. [NB: I came to CF to discuss pseudoscience of the kind exemplified in the OP, not Jesus or theology, though I do get entangled in some of these ethics discussions.]
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