My favorite argument for the existence of God

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Subduction Zone

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he assume that those steps were actuallt beneficial and indeed existed. he cant prove it.



he assume that those steps were actually beneficial and indeed existed in the past. he cant prove it at all.
No, it is easy to show that those steps are beneficial. Also you fulfilled my prophecy, you do not know what an assumption is. He drew a conclusion from evidence. That is not an assumption.

So try again. What were the supposed assumptions?
 
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Beautyinsteadofashes

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I get what you're saying, I suppose. But I wouldn't put it quite the same way.
To me, the existence of God is evident in the fact that everything in life is so complex. The human brain for example is still being studied due to its complexity. Much if life is codependent on other forms of life also. For instance if you take away spiders the whole Earth would be overrun with insects. To me, all of nature, including human beings, is so complex, so intricate, that it points to having a designer. That designer is God.
 
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bhsmte

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I get what you're saying, I suppose. But I wouldn't put it quite the same way.
To me, the existence of God is evident in the fact that everything in life is so complex. The human brain for example is still being studied due to its complexity. Much if life is codependent on other forms of life also. For instance if you take away spiders the whole Earth would be overrun with insects. To me, all of nature, including human beings, is so complex, so intricate, that it points to having a designer. That designer is God.

Ok. To boil it down in your view point; complex, must equal God.

Would that be correct?
 
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lesliedellow

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Ok. To boil it down in your view point; complex, must equal God.

Would that be correct?

Why do atheists have to respond to everything as if it was supposed to be a watertight proof?
 
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bhsmte

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Why do atheists have to respond to everything as if it was supposed to be a watertight proof?

I don't believe my response was geared towards "water tight proof". She appeared to be claiming, things are complex, so it must be God. How did you interpret what she claimed?
 
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lesliedellow

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I don't believe my response was geared towards "water tight proof". She appeared to be claiming, things are complex, so it must be God. How did you interpret what she claimed?

I interpreted to mean that, for her, the world she saw around her pointed to God. That is hardly, nor is it meant to be, proof, but what is true for her is true for her.
 
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bhsmte

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I interpreted to mean that, for her, the world she saw around her pointed to God. That is hardly, nor is it meant to be, proof, but what is true for her is true for her.

Indeed, she sees God in the world. She also said complexity was one reason, which is why I asked the question about complexity.
 
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lesliedellow

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Do atheists respond to everything as if it was supposed to be watertight proof?

In my experience, somebody only have to give their reasons for believing in God, and there will be a chorus of, "that's not evidence," "that doesn't mean there's a god," "You don't need a god to account for that."

All of that may be justified if the reason(s) given are supposed to automatically convince everybody else, but not otherwise.
 
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quatona

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In my experience, somebody only have to give their reasons for believing in God, and there will be a chorus of, "that's not evidence," "that doesn't mean there's a god," "You don't need a god to account for that."
Thanks for sizing down your original statement. :)

OTOH, I don´t find it THAT surprising in a thread called "My favourite argument for the existence of God".
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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In my experience, somebody only have to give their reasons for believing in God, and there will be a chorus of, "that's not evidence," "that doesn't mean there's a god," "You don't need a god to account for that."

All of that may be justified if the reason(s) given are supposed to automatically convince everybody else, but otherwise.
In a science forum one should expect the reasons one gives as explanations to be questioned and challenged, and alternatives suggested.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I get what you're saying, I suppose. But I wouldn't put it quite the same way.
To me, the existence of God is evident in the fact that everything in life is so complex. The human brain for example is still being studied due to its complexity. Much if life is codependent on other forms of life also. For instance if you take away spiders the whole Earth would be overrun with insects. To me, all of nature, including human beings, is so complex, so intricate, that it points to having a designer. That designer is God.
Problem: complexity isn't an indication of design. For example, a hammer is just as much designed as a computer, despite being rather simple.
 
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lesliedellow

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In a science forum one should expect the reasons one gives as explanations to be questioned and challenged, and alternatives suggested.

Not if the sentence starts with "To me," science forum or not. There is no "objective" refutation of somebody's subjective interpretation of the world they see around them.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Not if the sentence starts with "To me," science forum or not. There is no "objective" refutation of somebody's subjective interpretation of the world they see around them.
If people don't want to hear alternative views and opinions about the views they express, why post them in a public discussion forum?
 
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xianghua

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It's a possible pathway. When you have evidence that it can't evolve you might have a point

can you make a spinning motor by mixing parts from other systems that dont have a spinning motor? and if so, what is the chance for that?
 
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xianghua

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No, it is easy to show that those steps are beneficial. Also you fulfilled my prophecy, you do not know what an assumption is. He drew a conclusion from evidence. That is not an assumption.

So try again. What were the supposed assumptions?
first assumption- the first step is simple. can you show that is true, or you just believe that is true?
 
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xianghua

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I get what you're saying, I suppose. But I wouldn't put it quite the same way.
To me, the existence of God is evident in the fact that everything in life is so complex.

yep. it's the same logic basically. as robot is too complex to evolve by a natural process.

The human brain for example is still being studied due to its complexity. Much if life is codependent on other forms of life also. .

good point. its called "Irreducible complexity". you can read here for more information:

Irreducible Complexity: The Challenge to the Darwinian Evolutionary Explanations of many Biochemical Structures
 
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Subduction Zone

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first assumption- the first step is simple. can you show that is true, or you just believe that is true?

Try once more in English. This was not an answer to my question.

Until you learn what the word "assumption" means you really should quit using it.
 
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xianghua

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Problem: complexity isn't an indication of design. For example, a hammer is just as much designed as a computer, despite being rather simple.
but both of them cant evolve naturally. so they both complex objects. complexity means something that cant evolve naturally.
 
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