My favorite argument for the existence of God

[Kylie]

No. It isn't strange at all to point out that you belief/assertion has been vindicated scientifically. Far from it. Especially something as primordial as the origin of the universe. What's more the scientific endeavour, itself, was arguably initiated by the medieval friar and philosopher, Roger Bacon ; the West's initially unique rate of technological progress was a product of Christendom, of its Christian faith, moreover.

Unlike other religions (and no religion) we believe that man is made in God's image, and so expect to see something of the reasoning powers we possess in the designs of His Creation. Of course, it far exceeded our wildest dreams, in that even Einstein was left in total awe of the complexity and sophistication of the design of the universe, as well he might.

Here is one quote from Bacon on the subject :

'The strongest arguments prove nothing so long as the conclusions are not verified by experience. Experimental science is the queen of sciences and the goal of all speculation.'

In Bacon's day, the word, 'science' on its own, simply meant 'knowledge' ; 'experimental, here, evidently, 'empirical'.

You do not seem to understand the point I am making.

1. Religion produces a text that can be interpreted in many ways.
2. Science makes a discovery about the real world.
3. One of the interpretations of the religious text seems to be similar to what science discovered.
4. Religious people claim that this interpretation of the text is proof that the people who wrote it were right and that religion is correct.

Do you understand how that reasoning is flawed?

 

[marineimaging]

Are they really complex?

They seem amazingly simple to me, especially in how few there are. But they are difficult to comprehend in mathematical language.

I like the one that says God created..., that one is awesome. To produce something from nothing. Wow.

 

[Aman777]

First, even if we find evidence for simple and non-intelligent life, that doesn't mean that Humans are the only intelligent life in the universe.

The only person with an intelligence like God's was Adam. Noah, a direct descendant of Adam, brought the superior intelligence of God to this planet of dimwits. After millions of years of descent, they never farmed, built houses or did any of the things which Humans (Cain's descendants) did on Adam's Earth Genesis 4:17-22 with little or no evolution.

Second, are you suggesting that Noah's flood affected other planets?

No. It took place in Lake Van when the bottom of Adam's solid firmament filled with water after 40 days and nights of rain and sank, releasing the 450 ft long Ark into our world.

Your Lake Van argument has fallen apart. There is no evidence to suggest that Lake Van is anything like what you say it is. The entire floor of the lake has been surveyed. There is nothing there supporting your claim.

False, since the northern section has not been surveyed and it's one of the reasons I post that Adam's small firmament was only miles wide. The northern section is smaller than the southern section, but big enough to hide the firmament.

We'll just see if this actually happens. Just out of curiosity, when you say "soon", just what kind of time frame are you speaking of? A year? A decade? Two decades? And what future events does Genesis Chapter 1 describe?

Today, since today remains the 6th Creative Day, the last Day, Judgment Day. It can happen at any moment....No one is promised tomorrow.

 

[durangodawood]

I like the one that says God created..., that one is awesome. To produce something from nothing. Wow.

Awesome not necc. = complex.

A super simple thing can be awesome.

 

[Kylie]

The only person with an intelligence like God's was Adam. Noah, a direct descendant of Adam, brought the superior intelligence of God to this planet of dimwits. After millions of years of descent, they never farmed, built houses or did any of the things which Humans (Cain's descendants) did on Adam's Earth Genesis 4:17-22 with little or no evolution.

You keep making these claims, but you never provide a shred of evidence to back them up.

No. It took place in Lake Van when the bottom of Adam's solid firmament filled with water after 40 days and nights of rain and sank, releasing the 450 ft long Ark into our world.

And that was 600,000 years ago?

False, since the northern section has not been surveyed and it's one of the reasons I post that Adam's small firmament was only miles wide. The northern section is smaller than the southern section, but big enough to hide the firmament.

What is your source to say that the northern section has not been mapped? According to Wikipedia, the entire lake has been mapped. Lake Van - Wikipedia

Today, since today remains the 6th Creative Day, the last Day, Judgment Day. It can happen at any moment....No one is promised tomorrow.

It's gonna happen TODAY?

I'll tell ya what, I'll be generous and let you have to the end of the month. On December 1st, if it hasn't happened, we'll agree that you were wrong.

Oh, you were using the word "day" metaphorically, in an attempt to get out of any actual responsibility for your claims. So you got nothing that you're willing to actually put up. Gotcha.

 

[marineimaging]

Awesome not necc. = complex.

A super simple thing can be awesome.

10-4, with men very few things are possible but with God ALL THINGS are possible. What I wonder is..., where is this book called the "Word of Science" that helps us humans mature into realizing how we are supposed to relate to each other and to our world? Do the works of science anything other than help us understand a little bit of how God did things; even though our brand of science can say nothing about why He did it nor how it will play out in the future? I will say one thing about science. Be it a Biblical truth or a Science truth, somebody will come along after the OP has died and try to prove it wrong for many years to come.

 

[durangodawood]

10-4, with men very few things are possible but with God ALL THINGS are possible. What I wonder is..., where is this book called the "Word of Science" that helps us humans mature into realizing how we are supposed to relate to each other and to our world? Do the works of science anything other than help us understand a little bit of how God did things; even though our brand of science can say nothing about why He did it nor how it will play out in the future? I will say one thing about science. Be it a Biblical truth or a Science truth, somebody will come along after the OP has died and try to prove it wrong for many years to come.

Oh yeah, I completely agree that the findings of material science do not amount to a wisdom tradition.

What bothers me is how scriptural literalists put their own wisdom tradition in jeopardy by insisting that the obviously allegorical parts of Bible trump evidence about the world thats right in front of our own faces. They make the faith seem silly.

 

[quatona]

10-4, with men very few things are possible but with God ALL THINGS are possible. What I wonder is..., where is this book called the "Word of Science" that helps us humans mature into realizing how we are supposed to relate to each other and to our world? Do the works of science anything other than help us understand a little bit of how God did things; even though our brand of science can say nothing about why He did it nor how it will play out in the future? I will say one thing about science. Be it a Biblical truth or a Science truth, somebody will come along after the OP has died and try to prove it wrong for many years to come.

Good thing that science needn´t be capitalized.

 

[marineimaging]

Good thing that science needn´t be capitalized.

Like I said, somebody is going to try to prove everything we do wrong. Regardless of what we do, who we respect, what good we do in life..., it is ALL WRONG! (or is is ALL wrong. No, wait, all WRONG!)

 

[Astrophile]

we can go backward to a place in time where matter did not exist, where time did not exist, and space did not exist.

How could there be a place in time where time and space did not exist? The statement contradicts itself.

 

[marineimaging]

How could there be a place in time where time and space did not exist? The statement contradicts itself.

No, it doesn't contradict itself. Imagine surfing backward in time and space on your matter surfboard to arrive at nothingness. Your surfboard can't go any further so you are standing there and if you take one more step you cease to exist. It isn't a wall nor an abyss, those exist as a product of what was created. No, this is going backward until there is nothing.

Time, space, and matter are three legs of a stool. Take one away and the other two collapse in on themselves. Time has no reason to exist without space and matter. Matter can't exist without time and space. Space can exist without matter, but not without time. How do you know that there can be a nothing, because there is a something. If it exists then it had to have arrived here from somewhere which means it did not always exist. It had to be brought here or created.

 

[Kylie]

10-4, with men very few things are possible but with God ALL THINGS are possible. What I wonder is..., where is this book called the "Word of Science" that helps us humans mature into realizing how we are supposed to relate to each other and to our world? Do the works of science anything other than help us understand a little bit of how God did things; even though our brand of science can say nothing about why He did it nor how it will play out in the future? I will say one thing about science. Be it a Biblical truth or a Science truth, somebody will come along after the OP has died and try to prove it wrong for many years to come.

I am amazed that people can be so ignorant of science that they think it's a book. Is it because that's what your religion has and you are unable to comprehend anything different?

Science is a PROCESS, a way of investigating the world. A systematic way of trying to find out things, involving checking and double checking and testing in a rational way. It's not a book that says, "This is science, thou shalt not say otherwise."

 

[Kylie]

No, it doesn't contradict itself. Imagine surfing backward in time and space on your matter surfboard to arrive at nothingness. Your surfboard can't go any further so you are standing there and if you take one more step you cease to exist. It isn't a wall nor an abyss, those exist as a product of what was created. No, this is going backward until there is nothing.

Time, space, and matter are three legs of a stool. Take one away and the other two collapse in on themselves. Time has no reason to exist without space and matter. Matter can't exist without time and space. Space can exist without matter, but not without time. How do you know that there can be a nothing, because there is a something. If it exists then it had to have arrived here from somewhere which means it did not always exist. It had to be brought here or created.

I don't think this is an adequate explanation.

Can you go into a room that is not a room?

 

[quatona]

Like I said, somebody is going to try to prove everything we do wrong. Regardless of what we do, who we respect, what good we do in life..., it is ALL WRONG! (or is is ALL wrong. No, wait, all WRONG!)

You´re so RIGHT!

 

[Aman777]

How could there be a place in time where time and space did not exist? The statement contradicts itself.

Before God created Heaven (Air) and ground without form (Dust), there was nothing in physical form. The Light of the first Day or Jesus came forth into the physical world to mold and shape the air, dust and water into physical form and to defeat darkness or death. At the end of the present 6th Day His work will be finished or brought to perfection. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

FYI, The beginning of our Cosmos was on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 which was billions of years AFTER Adam's firmament/Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8

 

[xianghua]

I used to try and convince others with a valid argument they would accept, but the truth was nobody..., and I mean NOT A ONE of them came to my way of thinking because of my arguments. No, I began to see the wonders of our God AFTER I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, understanding my own human failings and knowing that HE is the only way, the truth, and the life. So I didn't accept Jesus because of science, but in spite of science. And I thank God that my salvation experience did not rely on bringing somebody aboard with me because I failed miserably. God has to call them and He calls whom He knows will receive His Son. And He calls those to Him whom He knows has not forfeited their choice and they have the decision to make. Not all will make the decision to follow His Son. Sad, but true. We do not need to explain God to anyone because they won't listen to us. God must present the truth to them in a manner they will understand if He knows they will listen. Meanwhile, our best approach and our best testimony is living the Word in our hearts and being all of those things of which God wants from us.

since english isnt my native i may not understand some word\s here and there but i think that i got you point.

 

[St. Helens]

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