My Evolution Challenge

[sandwiches]

He also thinks bacteria can randomly mutate by chance and make men.

I thought it was giraffes. Maybe it's both.

 

[Greg1234]

So, to answer my question, you don't know how you know that an engineer designed my computer, then.

It was intelligently designed. It is intelligence vs chance. It could be an engineer, an astronaut, a teacher a clerk, or a bus driver, but not mother nature. Start there.

 

[sandwiches]

It was intelligently designed. It is intelligence vs chance. It could be an engineer, an astronaut, a teacher a clerk, or a bus driver, but not mother nature. Start there.

How did you eliminate natural processes as having designed and formed your computer?

 

[Greg1234]

How did you eliminate natural processes as having designed and formed your computer?

The integrated complexity of said system along with testing of chance.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, to answer my question, you don't know how you know that an engineer designed my computer, then.

That's easy -- it crashes.

Don't you remember?

Professionals built this.

Amateurs built this.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

That's easy -- it crashes.

Don't you remember?

Professionals built this.

Amateurs built this.

One can be photographed, one can't.

 

[Anaximander]

Man is a different story. Man started out perfect - sinned - and fell. So, we have the opposite of evolution.

So, I have a question about your assumption that man, and I'm sure you are talking about Adam, started out perfect. Where does it say, "Adam was perfect"? My guess is you will be quoting Genesis 1:31 - "Very Good", but remember you are interpreting "very good" as perfect. There is actually biblical evidence Adam was not perfect. Recall, Satan scammed Eve and then Eve scammed Adam into taking the bite. Could a perfect man be able to be scammed by another person, as in the case with Adam? If your answer is yes, then explain how perfection is imperfect.

Best,

 

[sandwiches]

The integrated complexity of said system along with testing of chance.

I have to admit that after looking for a definition of 'integrated complexity,' I couldn't find one and all I kept finding were articles and quotes by Anthony Flew about how 'integrated complexity' in biology shows obvious signs of intelligent design.

So, could you either link to me a definition of 'integrated complexity' or explain it to me, please?

 

[sandwiches]

That's easy -- it crashes.

Don't you remember?

Professionals built this.

Amateurs built this.

I'd like to see how the ark would measure up against modern ships, since we really don't have much to go on by as far as seaworthiness, considering it was only afloat for about 30 days or so and we definitely have ships that have lasted much much longer than that.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'd like to see how the ark would measure up against modern ships, since we really don't have much to go on by as far as seaworthiness, considering it was only afloat for about 30 days or so and we definitely have ships that have lasted much much longer than that.

Genesis 7:11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Genesis 8:4 ¶ And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

150 days = 5 months

To answer your question, no modern vessel ever built, or will be built, could withstand the Flood.

That is, if I understand what these Internet scientists here have been telling us.

If I have the story right, any modern vessel today would melt in the extreme heat that would be boiling the oceans into outer space.

 

[Skaloop]

That's easy -- it crashes.

Don't you remember?

Professionals built this.

Amateurs built this.

Professionals also built all the myriad ships that have sailed for decades without any problems. In fact, my father-in-law has designed (not built, he's a naval architect, but designed) ice-breaker ships. One of his is still going after 26 years. So, yeah.

 

[AV1611VET]

Professionals also built all the myriad ships that have sailed for decades without any problems. In fact, my father-in-law has designed (not built, he's a naval architect, but designed) ice-breaker ships. One of his is still going after 26 years. So, yeah.

Kudos to your father-in-law --

 

[sandwiches]

Genesis 7:11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Genesis 8:4 ¶ And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

150 days = 5 months

My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

To answer your question, no modern vessel ever built, or will be built, could withstand the Flood.

That is, if I understand what these Internet scientists here have been telling us.

If I have the story right, any modern vessel today would melt in the extreme heat that would be boiling the oceans into outer space.

So, if God could create a divinely protected ship that goes against the very laws of nature, why didn't he just make it a really big house or whatever and protect it with his divine powers, the way he did the ark?

In fact, if the answer to all the questions about the ark, such as "How did a wooden boat that big not break apart?" "How did all the animals fit?" etc, is "divine powers" or "goddidit," why even try to defend it with answers like "water from Neptune" or whatever? Why not just answer "goddidit" to everything?

 

[Flatland]

I tried that already -- (28) -- it's still a theory.

The change in allele frequency over time is an observable, testable, repeatable FACT.

 

[AV1611VET]

My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

No problem --

So, if God could create a divinely protected ship that goes against the very laws of nature, why didn't he just make it a really big house or whatever and protect it with his divine powers, the way he did the ark?

Because a house would not get the attention that the Ark did.

Remember, Noah made the Hall of Faith (Hebrews 11) for building this Ark.

How much faith would be required to build a house?

Also, keep in mind that the Ark ended its journey -- not started it -- at Ararat.

Noah, in my opinion, lived nowhere near Mesopotamia.

In fact, if the answer to all the questions about the ark, such as "How did a wooden boat that big not break apart?" "How did all the animals fit?" etc, is "divine powers" or "goddidit," why even try to defend it with answers like "water from Neptune" or whatever? Why not just answer "goddidit" to everything?

I only advocate that as a last resort.

Saying "God did it" to every question doesn't foster learning the specific events.

Think what the Bible would be like without the "children's stories" we knew and loved; like Jonah and the whale, Daniel in the lion's den, the parting of the Red Sea, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

The change in allele frequency over time is an observable, testable, repeatable FACT.

Good -- but to ask for the definition of evolution, and get one of the supporting facts as an answer, is not giving the whole picture.

Evolution is much more than just alleles changing over time.

 

[rockaction]

Good -- but to ask for the definition of evolution, and get one of the supporting facts as an answer, is not giving the whole picture.

Evolution is much more than just alleles changing over time.

You're right. But in all honesty, the "whole picture" of evolution is practically everything in biology. So if you want the whole picture of evolution, go back to school and get a degree in biology. Study ecology, genetics, biochemistry, embryology, anatomy, microbiology, bioinformatics, physiology, and molecular biology. Evolution comes up in every course, and permeates every bit of it. If you want the "whole picture", dig into those subjects. Otherwise, stop complaining when we talk about it on a lower level.

 

[AV1611VET]

Study ecology, genetics, biochemistry, embryology, anatomy, microbiology, bioinformatics, physiology, and molecular biology.

Are you kidding?

I still get goosebumps watching red litmus paper turn green; let alone studying all that stuff.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Are you kidding?

I still get goosebumps watching red litmus paper turn green; let alone studying all that stuff.

So you admit that evolution is far beyond your understanding... perhaps you should consider that when you challenge it.

 

[sandwiches]

No problem --

Because a house would not get the attention that the Ark did.

Remember, Noah made the Hall of Faith (Hebrews 11) for building this Ark.

How much faith would be required to build a house?

Why was there a need for faith when building the thing that would save the animals?

Also, keep in mind that the Ark ended its journey -- not started it -- at Ararat.

Noah, in my opinion, lived nowhere near Mesopotamia.

It'd be interesting but how does that fit into the Bible?

I only advocate that as a last resort.

Saying "God did it" to every question doesn't foster learning the specific events.

Think what the Bible would be like without the "children's stories" we knew and loved; like Jonah and the whale, Daniel in the lion's den, the parting of the Red Sea, etc.

Now, here's what I don't get: You seem perfectly content with coming up with ways that things could have happened the way you think the Bible says it did. Now, why not keep going with trying to find out how it was done instead of throwing up your arms and just saying "goddidit" when hitting a snag in the explanations?