My doubts, and my endless questions!

[jhonan]

Okay here goes. Firstly, if I'm posting this in the wrong forum please don't flame me - I couldn't believe there were so many forums and sub-forums on this board (and so many users!)

I'm a non-practising Catholic, in that I no longer go to church every Sunday. To be honest, I find that going through the motions in Church doesn't answer all my questions. I have some deep-rooted questions and doubts about the origins of the Universe, existence, the soul, the afterlife, and creation. Questions that years of armchair philosophy has failed to answer! I'm not happy hearing the typical responses of 'but that's what faith is all about...' - And 'test ye not the Lord thy God'

I really want to understand these issues. If I can't resolve this issues in my mind, then how can I expect to pray? - How can I pray to an entity I have my doubts about? - How do I know that when I die my brain just doesn't switch off, the activity ceases, and I am no more - Just like if you stepped on an ant.

The reason I am asking here is that I want to know the best approach to answering my questions, who can I speak to?

John.

 

[Rage4Christ]

john

I was there with you at one point in my life. Skepticism, doubt, rational analysis, these were things I had to deal with squarely and honestly before I could feel comfortable walking the path of Christ.

What got me through was the realization that God is omnipotent, and therefore wants nothing from me. If I was in a state of doubt, God still had unconditional love for me.

So, my recommendation of the best approach for you. Dive in. Study, review, take the time to really completely understand the culture and lifestlye of doubt, empiricism, rationalism, and science. God will will not scorn your or stop loving you for being exacting and methodical in your understanding of who you are and your place in the universe.

I agree, you should not be happy with "that is what faith is all about."

Faith is not about compromising your astute reasoning, ability to question and ability to think. You need to follow this path, don't fear it, don't fear God. The path of Christ is difficult and often ambiguous, but the key is to have unconditional love for yourself.

What philosophy books have you read? What philosophers appeal to you? Specifically, what have you done (research wise) to confront these questions?

 

[desi]

Okay here goes. Firstly, if I'm posting this in the wrong forum please don't flame me - I couldn't believe there were so many forums and sub-forums on this board (and so many users!)

I'm a non-practising Catholic, in that I no longer go to church every Sunday. To be honest, I find that going through the motions in Church doesn't answer all my questions. I have some deep-rooted questions and doubts about the origins of the Universe, existence, the soul, the afterlife, and creation. Questions that years of armchair philosophy has failed to answer! I'm not happy hearing the typical responses of 'but that's what faith is all about...' - And 'test ye not the Lord thy God'

I really want to understand these issues. If I can't resolve this issues in my mind, then how can I expect to pray? - How can I pray to an entity I have my doubts about? - How do I know that when I die my brain just doesn't switch off, the activity ceases, and I am no more - Just like if you stepped on an ant.

The reason I am asking here is that I want to know the best approach to answering my questions, who can I speak to?

John.

I can only explain how I arrived where I am as everyone seems drawn to faith in different ways. I was raised Catholic by my father as he had me on most weekends and many friends questioned parts of the faith like praying to the Virgin Mary and the Saints. Many of these nit picks seemed legit to me so my faith was not complete in Catholicism, on the other hand my mother went to many fun Charismatic Churches between while she went through many husbands and boyfriends, after she left dad. This left me disillusioned with both churches once I was old enough to read the Bible as the Catholic Church seemed to follow Bible law and THEN some, while Chrismatic Chruches seemed to let anything go among its members. On top of all this I was questioning how the universe is and my place in it. It was when I delved into the mind/body connection that I stumbled onto the Cartesian Error ?sp which basically is an old agreement between the Church and science which says the soul/mind is the Churches turf while the body belongs to science, modern scientists and intelligent clergy recognize the asinine agreement this was. Mind and body are one and God created them both with clearly defined rules we quantify via science. Yes, there are miracles, but science is the method of God's creation. I won't argue with those of you who disagree with this as I have eight years of chemistry and biophysics to base my answers on and the conclusion I live with is mine from intense Bible study and higher education in the sciences and arts-funny I don't have a job at the moment .

I guess what I want to recommend is nightly reading the Bible while praying for God to give you understanding, and education, self or traditional, in liberal arts. The thing with college is initially everything seems finite in its own scope which is confusing. You have to learn a bit of everything for the world to come into focus. This involves taking hard classes in math and science and easy classes in history, art, psychology, anthropology, economics, sociology, and english. All of which are useful. To much emphasis in the science area leads to an analytical mindset with little respect for humanity, too much emphasis in nonscience/nonmath leads to a disregard for the analytical nature of the universe. God is of both; hence, humanity engenders them both. Its not so much as getting all the answers so much as understanding there is an order to things and that order came from somewhere. I, people, am the most complicated element in that order so far as I know. It would be quite a waste for it all to end with mere death.

The prior is my own way of understanding things. I pray you find your way with God's guidance.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

As for what church you now plan to attend, thats largely up to you, but wherever you go, you need to find a few friends who are both committed to you and to God who can personally advise you.

As for what you can do now, read the Bible. If you're having struggles with keeping the faith, read at least a few hours a day; it is best to read at least some everyday. Also, pray. Pray more than you read, for sure. At least 2 hours a day at this time. God is the only one who knows exactly what you need, so you need to read his word and also talk to him. Hopefully this isnt too much of a burden to you...

Also, keep posting here! All of the people here have great advice, don't lose that resource! May God help you!

 

[tapero]

I have some deep-rooted questions and doubts about the origins of the Universe, existence, the soul, the afterlife, and creation. Questions that years of armchair philosophy has failed to answer! I really want to understand these issues. If I can't resolve this issues in my mind, then how can I expect to pray? - How can I pray to an entity I have my doubts about? - How do I know that when I die my brain just doesn't switch off, the activity ceases, and I am no more - Just like if you stepped on an ant.
John.

Dear John,

Great questions! I can answer most from scripture. This may or may not be what you are looking for. I gave you a link on the bottom where a loving pastor (Bob), and a wonderful teacher (Obadiah) can help you.

On the Universe and Creation

We know that Jesus created all things. He created the Universe.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1:1-3

On Existance, Our soul - God is the maker of man/woman

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26

7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7

The Afterlife,

We either go to be with God forever (heaven)

If we believe in Jesus, we are immediately indwelled with the Holy Spirit, we will be saved. There is nothing one has to do to be saved but believe.

Hell

Those who do not believe will go to Hell.

We are eternal creatures. The soul never dies, neither saved nor unsaved.

Take care, Tapero

 

[Rafael]

Okay here goes. Firstly, if I'm posting this in the wrong forum please don't flame me - I couldn't believe there were so many forums and sub-forums on this board (and so many users!)

I'm a non-practising Catholic, in that I no longer go to church every Sunday. To be honest, I find that going through the motions in Church doesn't answer all my questions. I have some deep-rooted questions and doubts about the origins of the Universe, existence, the soul, the afterlife, and creation. Questions that years of armchair philosophy has failed to answer! I'm not happy hearing the typical responses of 'but that's what faith is all about...' - And 'test ye not the Lord thy God'

I really want to understand these issues. If I can't resolve this issues in my mind, then how can I expect to pray? - How can I pray to an entity I have my doubts about? - How do I know that when I die my brain just doesn't switch off, the activity ceases, and I am no more - Just like if you stepped on an ant.

The reason I am asking here is that I want to know the best approach to answering my questions, who can I speak to?

John.

Hi John, It sounds like the Bible verse that says, "they hunger and thirst for righteousness" and it may beginning to manifest itself in your life. This is a good thing when the Spirit of God calls you to a deeper walk.
May I suggest getting two or three paperback editions of new translations of the Bible and sitting down and reading the New Testament, first, while praying and asking God about each new thing you read. I started with an Amplified Bible which is a paraphrase, and with a New International direct translation. The second time, I went with a parallel of the Living Bible and the King James Version which is now my favorite. The Living Bible helps alot for understanding, too, as a paraphrase, and the KJV is always the most poetic and beautiful to read out loud.
If you ask to be born again, as you will encounter this verse about being born again in the Gospel of John, and you keep reading and asking God as you read and pray along, you will come to know more and understand all things from God's own Holy Spirit. You will be a living epistle to the world, an open letter from God for others to see. It can really change your life to carry around the living Word of God inside you, because that is what you have asked for and God will do it.
Here's an example of two verses, the same, in different Bible translations. See how they are different and expound on the meaning of God's Word. There are also some study Bibles that have these with four versions side by side, but I just got the cheapest paperbacks I could instead of a big fancy leather bound one that never gets used so I could afford to get them and learn as much as possible. And I didn't mind making notes in the binding this way. Now they are all marked up, and I do have a leather Bible, but I go back to raggedy paperbacks now and then to see a note I put next to a passage.

God bless, and keep you on your journeyLIV = Living Bible, paraphrase

KJV = King James Version
AMP = Amplified Bible, paraphrase
NIV = New International Version

NASB = New American Standard Bible

Galatians 5:17 (LIV) For we naturally love to do evil things that the Holy Spirit tells us not to do; and the good things we want to do when the Holy Spirit has His way with us are just the opposite of our natural desires. These two forces within us are constantly fighting each other to win control over us, and our wishes are never free from their pressures.

Galatians 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Galatians 5:17 (AMP) For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.

Galatians 5:17 (NIV) For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

Galatians 5:17 (NASB) For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please

Here's a few bonus verses :

Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Hebrews 12:2 (KJV) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Corinthians 3:2 (KJV) Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Colossians 3:1 (LIV) Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits at God's right hand in the place of honor and power. 2 Let heaven fill your thoughts. Do not think only about things down here on earth. 3 For you died when Christ died, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 And when Christ, who is your real life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory. 5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires. Don't be greedy for the good things of this life, for that is idolatry.

Ephesians 4:22 (LIV) throw off your old evil nature and your former way of life, which is rotten through and through, full of lust and deception. 23 Instead, there must be a spiritual renewal of your thoughts and attitudes. 24 You must display a new nature because you are a new person, created in God's likeness- righteous, holy, and true.

 

[allieisme]

I know your not a practing catholic and I'm not saying this to offend the catholics at all, but maybe that is not the right church for you to attend, maybe God is moving you into another direction in life..Talk to Him, pray often and He will lead you in the direction that He so chooses.
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.

 

[jhonan]

Thanks for all the excellent replies, which I have had a think about. Here's my feedback to each of you;

Rage4Christ: You seem to understand my position. As far as what philosophy books I've read, they are mostly introductory text (e.g. Nigel WalBurton "Basics of Philosophy", Thomas Nagel "What does it all mean?") - However, the subject of Philosophy is not something one learns through acquiring knowledge, but by a cycle of discussion and thought. Reading alone is not enough. It leaves me with even more questions!

desi: My background is in science, and I am an Analyst by profession. This has left me with a very logical and analytical way of thinking. Right now reading the Bible does not sound appealing to me. Every line I read causes me more questions and confusion. And I have tried! - The Gospels are easier (apart from John in places), but the Old Testament? - That's where I have most difficulty.

Bizzlebin: I have made some comments on 'reading the bible' above. But praying really has me stumped. Its something I remember being able to do when I was a child. In recent months I have tried once or twice, but I end up tormenting myself with my own guilt, worries, and burdens. Why lie there at night trying to learn how to pray when I feel like I'm going insane at the end of it? - It's not something I know how to do, and I don't think I can face up to it.

tapero: Thanks for the quotes. However, I think it will be quite some time before I really start to appreciate them. You (or rather the Bible) has made some assertions about God, the Universe, and the soul that I just have to believe? - Well, that's where my problem lies. There is no proof of these assertions, my scientific/analytical mind is just not satisfied that these things are true. Sorry!

raphe: Again, thanks for the list of quotes, they are quite enlightening. I have read them numerous times, but all I end up with are a list of questions; Who are the Galatians? Who are the Hebrews and Phillippians? Why should I believe the things that these people wrote 2000 years ago? How do they impact in any way my life today? Again, I have a feeling that I'm just supposed to take these verses at face value, believe them all, and be 'born again' - I don't even know what 'born again' even means at this stage!

allieisme: Yes, I have had my doubts about Catholicism. But the only Christian religions I've had exposure to in my life is Roman Catholic and Anglican (Church of England) - I understand them and their differences. I have no clue what Methodists, Baptists or any of the others are, or how they operate, or how they handle questions of a philosphical nature.

Thanks again for the replies,
John.

 

[Rafael]

raphe: Again, thanks for the list of quotes, they are quite enlightening. I have read them numerous times, but all I end up with are a list of questions; Who are the Galatians? Who are the Hebrews and Phillippians? Why should I believe the things that these people wrote 2000 years ago? How do they impact in any way my life today? Again, I have a feeling that I'm just supposed to take these verses at face value, believe them all, and be 'born again' - I don't even know what 'born again' even means at this stage!

Well, those were Churches that were letters written by the Apostle Paul, but first:
Yes, you are gonna have to do some work if your serious about seeking God. First of all you have to believe that He is and is a rewarder of those that seek Him. Do you even believe in God?

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I might as well put the definition of faith here:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure we will get what we hope for. It is being sure of what we cannot see.

Do you believe that it is possible that a being, such as God, could create the world, including yourself, and that He has expressed Himself to you in the gift of life? If it is possible, then if He could make such a wonderful and intelligent design in creation, then wouldn't it be possible for Him to preserve His written Word for man through history? These are questions you need to work on. along with many others, but you need to read for yourself so you can ask the questions from your own studies.
Faith is a gift from God, and if you seek Him with all your heart and want it, He'll give it.

Being "born again" is being born of God's spirit. Having a spiritual birth. From the gospel of John (gospel means "good news"), and John was one of the first 12 disciples of Jesus that walked with Him while He was on earth, Jesus speaks about being born of the spirit.

John 3: Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.

About the scriptures and who authored them:

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The Words of the Bible can actually impart spiritual life to a person that is ready and seeking God. Otherwise it is dead letter - ink and paper:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Here's a link where you can read about the Bible. If you go to the home page, and scroll down the left hand side, it has other subjects that have questions you may have about the Bible's veracity answered:
http://www.carm.org/questions_bible.htm

 

[allieisme]

allieisme: Yes, I have had my doubts about Catholicism. But the only Christian religions I've had exposure to in my life is Roman Catholic and Anglican (Church of England) - I understand them and their differences. I have no clue what Methodists, Baptists or any of the others are, or how they operate, or how they handle questions of a philosphical nature.

Thanks again for the replies,
John.

Well maybe you could go into a few different churches every now and then and get a feel for the different doctrines.

 

[MikeK]

Talk to your Priest, he'll be more than happy to help you out, that's what he's there for!

 

[Rage4Christ]

john

You said: Rage4Christ: You seem to understand my position. As far as what philosophy books I've read, they are mostly introductory text (e.g. Nigel WalBurton "Basics of Philosophy", Thomas Nagel "What does it all mean?") - However, the subject of Philosophy is not something one learns through acquiring knowledge, but by a cycle of discussion and thought. Reading alone is not enough. It leaves me with even more questions!

Philosophy is a process, the questions are a natural part. If you understand the questions, then you make progress. Not that you’ll ever really get the perfect “answer.” So, in this sense, study and reading philosophy is something I would recommend. Given your time constraints, and personality—perhaps this isn’t an option you want to entertain.

I would urge you to learn the powers and limits of logic and analysis. Study the linguistic philosophies, Ayer, Wittgenstein perhaps.

Review the rationalists: Descartes etc..

A good understanding of the power of Christ can’t be apprehended til you quarrel with existentialism. Camus, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Satre etc..

Hard work is the only answer to your question. Any feel good “read the bible, see your priest” are just escape options for the lazy—who don’t want to live a life of Christ, but want to follow a life of Christ others tell them to follow.

No guilt. No shame. No burdens. These are the signs of self hate—love yourself unconditionally, but work hard, not accept lazy or half answers

 

[charligirl]

Have you tried an Alpha course? They are specifically designed to answer 'questions of life' ina christian context and unwrap some of the apparant contradictions in the bible. The course is logical and is for people who want to investigate further. www.alpha.org should link you to one in your country.