My Darwin Slave Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Yet he created these ant species.

Of course God doesn't approve of slavery, he just created a system of indentured servitude for the ants!

Before or after the Fall?

I suppose you think He created lions to eat meat, yet in the Millennial Reign, lions will be eating straw.

And the wolf and the lamb will live in harmony.

 

[Larniavc]

Before or after the Fall?

I suppose you think He created lions to eat meat, yet in the Millennial Reign, lions will be eating straw.

And the wolf and the lamb will live in harmony.

Did the lion have huge teeth and claws before the fall?

 

[Jimmy D]

Before or after the Fall?

I suppose you think He created lions to eat meat, yet in the Millennial Reign, lions will be eating straw.

And the wolf and the lamb will live in harmony.

Those poor ants have suffered thousands of years of slavery because a talking snake tricked someone into eating a magical forbidden apple?

I'm curious, did the master ants take their slaves onto the ark with them?

 

[[serious]]

No.

What about owning people, passing them on as property, but arbitrarily calling them bondmen and bondwomen instead of slaves?

 

[AV1611VET]

What about owning people, passing them on as property, but arbitrarily calling them bondmen and bondwomen instead of slaves?

Could we not discuss bonding in this thread, please?

 

[LouisBooth]

No, that´s an entirely different question

I'd disagree. Do you adhere to relative morality? If not, then it's the same question.

Why wouldn't I be honest?

IMO, morality "doesn't happen," morality is a concept. As sapient beings, we can choose what those moral actions are or are not.

Not everyone will admit that conclusion. Your statement says the action in and of itself is immoral by your standards, ie a universal truth.

As for your 2nd statement it can't be a concept and slavery be immoral as a point blank statement. If it's a concept solely to humans, then slavery is not immoral and your statement is false. If not I'd like to hear your justification for such.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'd disagree. Do you adhere to relative morality? If not, then it's the same question.

Not everyone will admit that conclusion. Your statement says the action in and of itself is immoral by your standards, ie a universal truth.

As for your 2nd statement it can't be a concept and slavery be immoral as a point blank statement. If it's a concept solely to humans, then slavery is not immoral and your statement is false. If not I'd like to hear your justification for such.

Relative morality, then.

Slavery is immoral when it involves humans, not so much when it doesn't.

 

[durangodawood]

Did the lion have huge teeth and claws before the fall?

Not to mention the ancient lion's ruminant digestive system.

Lions ate / will eat grass is among the top ten silliest things Ive ever heard.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Before or after the Fall?

He created it after the Fall, if you prefer.

 

[Larniavc]

Not to mention the ancient lion's ruminant digestive system.

Lions ate / will eat grass is among the top ten silliest things Ive ever heard.

Yep. The first thing my cat Fletcher does when she insists on eating grass is vomit.

 

[durangodawood]

I'd like to register my stern disapproval of colliding galaxies.

Please note that I am against this destructive and immoral natural process.

 

[quatona]

I'd disagree. Do you adhere to relative morality? If not, then it's the same question.

Again, you are redefining words. Relative morality typically doesn´t mean that there´s a different morality for actions of bricks, actions of aeroplanes, actions of trees and actions of humans.
The statement I am making ("In common use of language events can be called "moral/immoral" only if they are performed by a moral agent") is pretty clear - you needn´t agree with it, but I would like you to understand it. As long as you misrepresent it, I get the impression you don´t understand it.
If you want to expand moral judgements to events that not performed moral agents but just so happen, be my guest. It´s just not covered by the common use of this word, though.

 

[quatona]

My car behaved immorally this morning when the engine refused to start.

 

[HitchSlap]

Your statement says the action in and of itself is immoral by your standards, ie a universal truth.

There is no such thing as a "universal truth," with respect to morality. Morality would not exist if there were no one to conceive of it.

As for your 2nd statement it can't be a concept and slavery be immoral as a point blank statement. If it's a concept solely to humans, then slavery is not immoral and your statement is false. If not I'd like to hear your justification for such.

Slavery is immoral because we all agree that it is. Nothing more.

 

[durangodawood]

....Slavery is immoral because we all agree that it is. Nothing more.

Yes, but that agreement is not just on any arbitrary or even culturally conditioned basis.

It derives from our hard earned knowledge that slavery makes life more miserable, generally... and not just for slaves.

 

[HitchSlap]

Yes, but that agreement is not just on any arbitrary or even culturally conditioned basis.

It derives from our hard earned knowledge that slavery makes life more miserable, generally... and not just for slaves.

Yep.

 

[LouisBooth]

Relative morality, then

Noted. So you do also believe in mob rules?

 

[HitchSlap]

Noted. So you do also believe in mob rules?

What's your motive for conflating mob mentality with moral codification.
This is a straw man at least and disingenuous at most.

 

[LouisBooth]

If you want to expand moral judgements to events that not performed moral agents but just so happen, be my guest.

So the action can be immoral OR moral it's the originator that determines it by intent? It's not an expansion at all unless you submit also that any action can be "right" depending on the originator. Slavery can be moral if done by a moral originator.

 

[HitchSlap]

So the action can be immoral OR moral it's the originator that determines it by intent? It's not an expansion at all unless you submit also that any action can be "right" depending on the originator. Slavery can be moral if done by a moral originator.

According to the Christian god / Jesus, this is correct.