My Daisy Chain Challenge

[Loudmouth]

We do have evidence, the word of God.

Those are claims, not evidence.

One thing special about the book is the number of prophecies, hundreds of them, and many have come true.

And many have not come true, and many more could have fit any occurrence.

Nearly 3000 years ago, a Hebrew wrote how Israel would be destroyed and the inhabitants would be spread out into all nations to be humiliated and tortured. It went on to say how the land would be given back to them. In 70ad the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, and for nearly 2000 years the Jews patiently waited.

The Messiah was supposed to return the land to the Israelites when he was on Earth. That's a failed prophecy. Instead of restoring Israel and punishing their enemies the Jews had their country overtaken, the exact opposite of what the Messianic prophecies stated.

Even more, the creation story does not match up with the evidence. This again shows that the creation story is not true.

 

[Split Rock]

EVIDENCE? don't you get it? still? THERE IS NONE

That is a falsehood. You may not be willing to accept the evidence at face value, but it is disingenuous to claim it doesn't exist.

The Pelvis of Lucy, prove it wasn't a type of monkey that went extinct with no further mutations. You can't. With macro evolution relying on death rather than life, it simply won't work. God is life, without the creator there is no life.

Cladistically, Lucy was a monkey, as are we. However, she walked upright and had pelvis and jaws intermediate between us and other apes. It doesn't matter if Lucy had offspring or not. She represents a population/species. Yes they went extinct. It isn't the most important question whether we are in the direct line of descendents of Lucy's species either. If Lucy's species was not in the direct line, it was close to it. What is important is that her species is transitional in its characteristics between us and other apes.

DNA used in criminal cases has often proved to be contamination. Also, it is wide open to corruption, as is the evidence with evolution.

That is why scientists are very careful in the way they gather evidence, and use various forms of documentation.

If you take any two fossils which have a commonality, you could mistakenly call them transitional. By the way, dinosaurs did not evolve from birds, they were created, but not by God. This is the reason they were wiped out and we were left with the original birds only.

Whatever are you talking about? Are you saying Satan created dinosaurs or something like that??? Oh and btw, birds evoled from dinosaurs, not the other way around.

We do have evidence, the word of God. I'm not sure if you have ever read the Bible? One thing special about the book is the number of prophecies, hundreds of them, and many have come true. Nearly 3000 years ago, a Hebrew wrote how Israel would be destroyed and the inhabitants would be spread out into all nations to be humiliated and tortured. It went on to say how the land would be given back to them. In 70ad the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, and for nearly 2000 years the Jews patiently waited. Then the land was reformed by UN resolution. Many prophecies have come true and I know no human who can see the future, so it is supernaturally inspired. It even tells you which countries will do battle in the last days, leading up to judgement day. Those nations weren't even formed when written, but if you watch the news, they are all conspiring together right now. God PROVES his supremacy.

When we talk of evidence, we are normally referring to physical evidence... evidence that is testable. The problem with using "the word of God," are multiple.
1. God didn't write the bible (with the possible exception of the commandments).
2. The bible has been transcribed many times and translated between a number of languages. This means that much could have been lost in translation, so to speak.
3. Your interpretion of the bible is fallible.

 

[And-U-Say]

There's a difference though.

Evolutionists claim the fossil record says this and that, then when backed into a corner ... as this challenge is doing ... claim they don't even need the fossil record at all, since there's plenty of other evidence in other disciplines to corroborate the theory of evolution.

In contrast, we -- (or I) -- claim that, where the Bible is concerned, evidence can take a hike; as we walk by faith, not by sight.

Get it now?

I should have known, yes I got it, and I weep for humanity.

You don't need evidence for something that agrees with the delusion you were taught as a child, but you need infinite evidence for anything that disagrees with that delusion.

I can see why you believe what you believe, because you really don't care.

 

[EternalDragon]

I should have known, yes I got it, and I weep for humanity.

You don't need evidence for something that agrees with the delusion you were taught as a child, but you need infinite evidence for anything that disagrees with that delusion.

I can see why you believe what you believe, because you really don't care.

Why in the world would you weep for humanity when all you say we are, are a bunch of apes that will just die and be gone? If evolution is true and God doesn't exist then what does it matter what someone believes?

What are you weeping for?

 

[kellhus]

Why in the world would you weep for humanity when all you say we are, are a bunch of apes

You make it sound like a bad thing. Always seemed weird that creationists seem to think apes are awful and degenerate and dirty but they never have a problem with being eutheria or mammals.

that will just die and be gone? If evolution is true and God doesn't exist

Evolution has nothing to do with whether or not God exists.

 

[CabVet]

Why in the world would you weep for humanity when all you say we are, are a bunch of apes that will just die and be gone?

It's called morality and ethics. You don't need a religion to have those.

If evolution is true and God doesn't exist then what does it matter what someone believes?

What are you weeping for?

See above. One of the things that scares me the most about humans is that the only thing stopping some from raping children and cannibalism seems to be religion.

P.S.: Evolution has nothing to say about the existence of God. The only thing that evolution disproves is most of Genesis, nothing else.

 

[kellhus]

Inb4 the confusion of natural selection with dystopian social Darwinism and eugenics and nihilism leading to atheists/scientists are evil and can't know right and wrong without evangelical creationist dogma.

 

[nuttypiglet]

You have the word of God? Why didn't you say so?

Oh, you don't. Upon further reading all you have is the Bible.

The Bible is clearly not the word of God, and it does not have hundreds of fulfilled prophecies. Many of those so called prophesies are merely quote mines of the Old Testament. That is probably where many creationists learned that dishonest technique.

The Bible has hundreds of self contradictions. It is filled with bad morals, bad and failed science, and failed prophecies.

So you ignore my evidence? Ezekiel wrote about many things way off in his future which have come to pass. I can also tell you that God uses the heavens for signs of events. Look in the book of revelation where it says A woman clothed with the sun, with the Moon at her feet will appear in the Heavens, with a crown of 12 stars and she is giving birth to a King. Get stellarium (free) and look from the perspective of Israel. Now look for the constellation of Virgo. Now scroll through the date line as long as you like, and it only happens once, the exact same image appears in Sept 2017. Is this another coincidence? The constellation of Leo along with 3 planets in our solar system perfectly align to form a 12 star crown. Between the thighs of Virgo is Regulus. But wait, maybe that's not impressive enough. The text goes on to say that a certain creature will be waiting for the King to be born, to devour it, but I won't spoil the fun, just look for yourself.
Oh, nearly forgot, perhaps you could list one failed prophecy? I'm not speaking of one that hasn't come to its time yet.

 

[nuttypiglet]

It's called morality and ethics. You don't need a religion to have those.



See above. One of the things that scares me the most about humans is that the only thing stopping some from raping children and cannibalism seems to be religion.

P.S.: Evolution has nothing to say about the existence of God. The only thing that evolution disproves is most of Genesis, nothing else.

And without a superior being, who can decide what is moral and ethical and on what grounds? Who can dictate what is right and wrong and on what grounds? Perhaps you base your ideals on what's best for survival, as in Evolution? But that would allow rape. We would be wanting to multiply none stop to spread those Genes. Adultery would also be out the window. Murder of the weak would be ideal, as would killing the sick. The good values came from religion and have stuck with us.

 

[nuttypiglet]

Why in the world would you weep for humanity when all you say we are, are a bunch of apes that will just die and be gone? If evolution is true and God doesn't exist then what does it matter what someone believes?

What are you weeping for?

Brilliant Evolution without God means the Universe will eventually die, with no life in it. This means life is pointless and we may as well stop having children now. What's the point in enjoying anything about life when you won't know anything about it in a few years. All memories and experiences will perish with evolution.
Me, I prefer the alternative, that we were created with a choice of being eternal.

 

[nuttypiglet]

"Whatever are you talking about? Are you saying Satan created dinosaurs or something like that??? Oh and btw, birds evoled from dinosaurs, not the other way around."

Well, not Lucifer, no. Read the book of Enoch which gives more detail about the Nephilim. The were children of half spiritual being and half human. They were taught many secrets by their Fathers, who were at the creation. They meddled with DNA causing God to flood the world and remove the mess. Only one family was undefiled, still clean. God had the remaining undefiled animals led into the ark so they could be saved and keep his creation going. You will see those 200 Angels punished on the day of Judgement.
By the way, Jesus said "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the last days". He is either speaking about Man becoming genetic engineers, or more meddling from fallen Angels.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why in the world would you weep for humanity when all you say we are, are a bunch of apes that will just die and be gone? If evolution is true and God doesn't exist then what does it matter what someone believes?

What are you weeping for?

I used to point out that scientists probably acted like they didn't know what happened when Klebold & Harris "went feral;" but I have just recently learned that the proper term should be "reverted."

And, believe it or not, I got that term by watching an episode of Columbo!

 

[HitchSlap]

And without a superior being, who can decide what is moral and ethical and on what grounds?

Unless you consider slavery to be moral, we can.

 

[kellhus]

And without a superior being, who can decide what is moral and ethical and on what grounds? Who can dictate what is right and wrong and on what grounds? Perhaps you base your ideals on what's best for survival, as in Evolution? But that would allow rape. We would be wanting to multiply none stop to spread those Genes. Adultery would also be out the window. Murder of the weak would be ideal, as would killing the sick. The good values came from religion and have stuck with us.

I totally called it.

 

[EternalDragon]

It's called morality and ethics. You don't need a religion to have those.

Basically morals are from God. It's written in your heart. You just don't know it yet.

 

[CabVet]

Basically morals are from God. It's written in your heart. You just don't know it yet.

And there goes free will.

 

[HitchSlap]

what? surely that depends on your definition of slavery. We are all slaves in one way or another, just think about it.

As in owning another human being as property. Your god in the OT not only condoned it, he gave you explicit instructions on ownership, and your Jesus in the NT told slaves to obey your masters. So, yes, you intuitively know owning another human is immoral, and so do I, and we didn't learn this from the bible.

 

[EternalDragon]

As in owning another human being as property. Your god in the OT not only condoned it, he gave you explicit instructions on ownership, and your Jesus in the NT told slaves to obey your masters. So, yes, you intuitively know owning another human is immoral, and so do I, and we didn't learn this from the bible.

There was no advocating of buying and selling of people in the bible.

As we already know, slavery was common in the Middle East as far back as ancient Egypt. If God had simply ignored it, then there would have been no rules for their treatment and they could have treated them harshly with no rights. But since they did have rights and rules for their protection, it showed that God cared for them as well. However, this is often misconstrued for an endorsement of slavery, which it is not. God listed slave traders among the worst of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:10 (kidnappers/men stealers/slave traders).

 

[kellhus]

There was no advocating of buying and selling of people in the bible.

As we already know, slavery was common in the Middle East as far back as ancient Egypt. If God had simply ignored it, then there would have been no rules for their treatment and they could have treated them harshly with no rights. But since they did have rights and rules for their protection, it showed that God cared for them as well. However, this is often misconstrued for an endorsement of slavery, which it is not. God listed slave traders among the worst of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:10 (kidnappers/men stealers/slave traders).

Too bad God didnt have the moral authority with the Israelites to abolish slavery.

 

[HitchSlap]

There was no advocating of buying and selling of people in the bible.

Liar.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)