My Creationism vs Intelligent Design Challenge

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps if you see us all as liars and breakers of the 9th Commandment, you've been spending too much time in the mirror?

The Ninth Commandment covers more than just lies. Don't try to pass over your sins onto others, I have enough of my own. You have been corrected often enough so that you have no excuse. Is reality that frightening to you that you have to attack those that try to help you to see the light?

All I ask is a little honesty on the part of creationists. Is that too much to expect?

 

[rturner76]

No one is saying that the modern cell is randomly assembled. We are saying that the modern cell is assembled through natural processes.

I agree

Why does that indicate a design is in place? Water molecules organize themselves into intricate hexagonal designs. Does this mean that a deity is guiding each atom to make these designs?

It indicates a design because the atomic and/or cellular structure can be mapped out, thus showing us how the cell or organism is put together on an atomic or cellular level.

To answer the question posed yes, it does mean that a higher unseen intelligence has guided each atom of water or I should say more like set up the process by which it would happen. That's kind of the same thing I guess because the creator of the system called nature also sustains it or designed it to sustain itself I should say.

 

[Loudmouth]

It indicates a design because the atomic and/or cellular structure can be mapped out, thus showing us how the cell or organism is put together on an atomic or cellular level.

Why does that indicate design?

To answer the question posed yes, it does mean that a higher unseen intelligence has guided each atom of water or I should say more like set up the process by which it would happen. That's kind of the same thing I guess because the creator of the system called nature also sustains it or designed it to sustain itself I should say.

Then the cell isn't any more designed than a rock or a cloud?

 

[rturner76]

Why does that indicate design?

In the same way a blueprint shows the design of a building. It is a mapping of how the cell or organism was constructed in an organized manor, not by chaos

Then the cell isn't any more designed than a rock or a cloud?

On a certain level that would be correct except the cell is living and many can reproduce, that would be different from most rocks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the same way a blueprint shows the design of a building. It is a mapping of how the cell or organism was constructed in an organized manor, not by chaos

Natural selection is where that order comes from. It is a strawman on your part to try to say that others claim that it comes from chaos.

On a certain level that would be correct except the cell is living and many can reproduce, that would be different from most rocks.

And cells undergo natural selection after they have reproduced, again unlike rocks.

 

[Loudmouth]

In the same way a blueprint shows the design of a building.

What you are pointing to is not a blueprint. It is the building itself.

On a certain level that would be correct except the cell is living and many can reproduce, that would be different from most rocks.

A rock is designed in the same way that a cell is, correct?

 

[AV1611VET]

All I ask is a little honesty on the part of creationists. Is that too much to expect?

Would you recognize it if you got it? or would your myopic science get in the way?

 

[HitchSlap]

Would you recognize it if you got it? or would your myopic science get in the way?

Step aside sonny, the bible is myopic - won't help you a bit. Science is the only reason you know anything at all. In fact, you might even say, you're saved by science, AV.

 

[AV1611VET]

In fact, you might even say, you're saved by science, AV.

Not hardly.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not hardly.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

You missed his point. Odds are that without the advancements of science you would have died years ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

Odds are that without the advancements of science you would have died years ago.

Praise the LORD!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Praise the LORD!

Wrong, praise science. That is what saved you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Wrong, praise science. That is what saved you.

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Sorry, but if your neighbor saved your life one that was never there does not get the credit

And since a worker is worth his pay you should be "paying" science with thanks.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Would you recognize it if you got it? or would your myopic science get in the way?

Try being honest and we'll find out.

 

[AV1611VET]

Odds are that without the advancements of science you would have died years ago.

Sorry, but if your neighbor saved your life ...

I'm at a loss here as to whom you want me to give the credit to for saving my life.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm at a loss here as to whom you want me to give the credit to for saving my life.

It is not an individual but scientists in general. The horticultural scientists that have keep you from starving to death. Geologists and geophysicists that have made it possible to drive your car by finding oil. Scientists that have surely worked on the various medications that keep you alive. The list goes on and on. You rely on scientists far more than you realize.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is not an individual but scientists in general.

I can go a step further though, since I'm not an atheist.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

You rely on scientists far more than you realize.

More like I hold scientists up to a Standard that you cannot.

 

[rturner76]

What you are pointing to is not a blueprint. It is the building itself.



A rock is designed in the same way that a cell is, correct?

I beg to differ, by blueprint I mean that if it were possibe lt to write that small, the cellular structure of a creature could be mapped out on paper or similar to a print out of a DNA strand print out. With it, a creature could be built. That's what I was referring to as a blueprint.

Is a rock designed in the same way as a cell? Yes and no. Both are made up of atoms but one is living. I would say though that their design from an atomic perspective is the same on a building block level.

 

[Loudmouth]

I beg to differ, by blueprint I mean that if it were possibe lt to write that small, the cellular structure of a creature could be mapped out on paper or similar to a print out of a DNA strand print out. With it, a creature could be built. That's what I was referring to as a blueprint.

Would you also agree that the blueprint for water is H2O? Is the blueprint for carbon dioxide CO2? Does that mean water and carbon dioxide are just as designed as a cell?

Is a rock designed in the same way as a cell? Yes and no. Both are made up of atoms but one is living. I would say though that their design from an atomic perspective is the same on a building block level.

So a cell is different from a rock in the same way that a diamond is different from a zircon? The only thing that separates them is their specific chemical makeup?