My Canoe Challenge

[AV1611VET]

You're saying the canoe is "existentially" 1 day old, but physically 1000 years old (or the other way around, it doesn't really matter, actually... because they are, by definition the same thing).

Now you're getting it --

The canoe is 1 day old by existence, and 1000 years old because it took the tree that long to grow.

If I put a sign on that canoe that says:

FOR SALE
BRAND NEW 2010 CANOE
ZERO MILES
​

... and someone buys it in 2012, puts padded seats in it and sticks it in a theme park as THE CANOE RIDE, can he claim it is a brand new 2012 model canoe?

 

[Delphiki]

Now you're getting it --

The canoe is 1 day old by existence, and 1000 years old because it took the tree that long to grow.

This is where you're mistaken, though. And it's also why people are asking questions. If it is both 1 day and 1000 years old, then the fact that you also consider it 1000 years old means that you consider a tree to be a canoe well before it's ever a canoe. What about the tree? Why is the tree only 1000 years old if you consider the canoe to be older than it really is?

Reread my previous post... all of it. I almost explained it all over again, but I really don't feel like it when it was all in my last post.

 

[Delphiki]

If I put a sign on that canoe that says:

FOR SALE
BRAND NEW 2010 CANOE
ZERO MILES
​

... and someone buys it in 2012, puts padded seats in it and sticks it in a theme park as THE CANOE RIDE, can he claim it is a brand new 2012 model canoe?

It's a 2010 canoe, but THE CANOE RIDE was built in 2012.

It's a 1000 year old tree (not canoe) and a 1 day old canoe.

Why is this so difficult to grasp?

 

[AV1611VET]

If it is both 1 day and 1000 years old, then the fact that you also consider it 1000 years old means that you consider a tree to be a canoe well before it's ever a canoe.

Every tree has a potential canoe just waiting to get out.

 

[Delphiki]

Every tree has a potential canoe just waiting to get out.

Also, chair, cabin, rocking horse, picnic table, picket fence, firewood, pencils, building blocks, nut crackers, nunchucks, salad bowls, etc. Which is why it is just a tree until it is something else. Whatever you make from it, is not 1000 years old. It is merely made of 1000 year old wood, but it is still a brand new ______.

 

[AV1611VET]

Also, chair, cabin, rocking horse, picnic table, picket fence, firewood, pencils, building blocks, nut crackers, nunchucks, salad bowls, etc. Which is why it is just a tree until it is something else. Whatever you make from it, is not 1000 years old. It is merely made of 1000 year old wood, but it is still a brand new ______.

For about the 8th time, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Delphiki]

Then what was the point in this thread? To give an example of tautology?

"If I make a canoe today, then today a canoe was made."

 

[PhoceanCity]

"Every tree is a canoe to be"
Seems like a nice motivational poster to me

 

[Nathan Poe]

Now you're getting it --

The canoe is 1 day old by existence, and 1000 years old because it took the tree that long to grow.

Which is an utter crock -- by that logic, ever car built is millions of years old because that's how long the metal used to make it has been laying in the Earth.

If I put a sign on that canoe that says:

FOR SALE
BRAND NEW 2010 CANOE
ZERO MILES​

... and someone buys it in 2012, puts padded seats in it and sticks it in a theme park as THE CANOE RIDE, can he claim it is a brand new 2012 model canoe?

He can claim it, but he'd be lying -- it's still a 2010 canoe.

 

[Nathan Poe]

For about the 8th time, I couldn't agree more.

And yet you would still claim that all these items were 1000 years old.

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet you would still claim that all these items were 1000 years old.

Wouldn't you, if you cored it and found 1000 rings?

 

[Lillen]

The clock is an invention by man!!

 

[Nathan Poe]

Wouldn't you, if you cored it and found 1000 rings?

You can't really "core" a picnic table -- and if you tried, you wouldn't find 1000 rings.

 

[Lillen]

The clock is an invention of man. Seconds and Minuits do not have a defintion, you cannot derivive a second anýhow. It is simply just commanded that it should be that way. You can argue that one minuite is 60 seconds, and one second is 10/10th of a second and 1/10th of a second is 10/100th second and so on. But what is the least of time? To do an analogy, we argue that atoms is the smallest parts of matter, but what is the smallest part of time?

Isn't time relative according to Einstein?

 

[Delphiki]

The clock is an invention of man. Seconds and Minuits do not have a defintion, you cannot derivive a second anýhow. It is simply just commanded that it should be that way. You can argue that one minuite is 60 seconds, and one second is 10/10th of a second and 1/10th of a second is 10/100th second and so on. But what is the least of time? To do an analogy, we argue that atoms is the smallest parts of matter, but what is the smallest part of time?

Isn't time relative according to Einstein?

Planck time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Lillen]

As a muscian who plays guitar my way of playing the guitar has a pulse, a living pulse that isn't agreement with bpm or my metronome. But still have a rythem. This rythem follows my emotions i express using instrument there one pulsebeat can have the frequncy of 1 second and the next beat 2 seconds. The periodic curve of the beats is not even - it do not follow a symmetric wave yet it has rythem and is according to my listneres some really beutiful tunes i can set forth on the instrument.

 

[Delphiki]

As a muscian who plays guitar my way of playing the guitar has a pulse, a living pulse that isn't agreement with bpm or my metronome. But still have a rythem. This rythem follows my emotions i express using instrument there one pulsebeat can have the frequncy of 1 second and the next beat 2 seconds. The periodic curve of the beats is not even - it do not follow a symmetric wave yet it has rythem and is according to my listneres some really beutiful tunes i can set forth on the instrument.

 

[Split Rock]

I cut down a 1000-year-old tree, hollow it out and make a canoe out of it; all in a day's time.

How old is the canoe when I'm finished?

Its new.

So now we have a 1-day old canoe, made from a 1000-year-old mature log.

So, in essence, we have a canoe that is mature, but without a history.

Would you say this is correct?

No

Brand new, but it doesn't lack a history?

Hmmm

Incorrect again.

This thread has nothing to do with embedded age.

That is a deliberate falsehood and you know it.

I don't want you guys to end up confusing yourselves -- (and confusing me as well).

Too late. You have confused yourself so much with this embedded age nonsense that you don't even understand what age is anymore. But, at least you still have your faith... right?

 

[Split Rock]

It's a 2010 canoe, but THE CANOE RIDE was built in 2012.

It's a 1000 year old tree (not canoe) and a 1 day old canoe.

Why is this so difficult to grasp?

It isn't. There are two possibilities as I see it.

1. AVET is being purposely obtuse, pretending he doesn't understand, just as he pretended in this thread that the O.P. has nothing to do with Embedded Age.

2. AVET has confused himself so much with his twisted pretzel of a theology, that he really can't understand what age is anymore.

I vote for 1.

 

[Nathan Poe]

It isn't. There are two possibilities as I see it.

1. AVET is being purposely obtuse, pretending he doesn't understand, just as he pretended in this thread that the O.P. has nothing to do with Embedded Age.

2. AVET has confused himself so much with his twisted pretzel of a theology, that he really can't understand what age is anymore.

I vote for 1.

I vote for both -- some folks, in their efforts to confuse others, end up confusing themselves.