My Alcohol Challenge

[pgp_protector]

Drinking is a sin.

So it's either everyone dies of thirst or sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

So it's either everyone dies of thirst or sin.

I don't call drinking grape juice "dying of thirst."

 

[pgp_protector]

I don't call drinking grape juice "dying of thirst."

I know you don't want me to Arab Phone you, you stated "Drinking is a sin" , no mention of grape juice in the post I quoted in full.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know you don't want me to Arab Phone you, you stated "Drinking is a sin" , no mention of grape juice in the post I quoted in full.

Ah ... now I see what you meant!

My bad!

 

[TLK Valentine]

Two waterpots of six firkins apiece come to 72 - 108 gallons of wine.

In a (formerly nomadic) civilization such as the ancient Hebrews, hospitality was one of the most important virtues, dating back to the times when a stranger's good graces could very well mean the difference between life and death.

It wouldn't be uncommon, under those circumstances, for a wedding celebration to include an entire community, especially if the families being joined were some some status. 72-108 gallons would be enough for a small village, would it not?

And nobody's assuming they drank it all...

 

[AV1611VET]

In a (formerly nomadic) civilization such as the ancient Hebrews, hospitality was one of the most important virtues, dating back to the times when a stranger's good graces could very well mean the difference between life and death.

It wouldn't be uncommon, under those circumstances, for a wedding celebration to include an entire community, especially if the families being joined were some some status. 72-108 gallons would be enough for a small village, would it not?

And nobody's assuming they drank it all...

Well, for the record, drinking is a sin, and Jesus wouldn't be an enabler.

Second, they had already drank the alcoholic wine up (assuming alcoholic wine was there in the first place), so Jesus wouldn't be giving them more.

 

[Loudmouth]

Drinking is a sin.

As we all know, ancient Romans pasteurized their grape juice, put it in pre-sterilized jugs, and then refrigerated it to keep it from fermenting.

 

[quatona]

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

And in this instance "wine" does NOT mean grape juice, I guess?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, for the record, drinking is a sin, and Jesus wouldn't be an enabler.

For the record, that's your opinion, not fact.Circular reasoning from you, AV? Say it ain't so, Shoeless Joe!

Please don't project your own idiosyncrasies and insecurities onto the text, AV -- it muddles the meaning even more than your usual exegesis. Debate honestly, or not at all.

Second, they had already drank the alcoholic wine up (assuming alcoholic wine was there in the first place), so Jesus wouldn't be giving them more.

Second, perhaps normally Jesus wouldn't have done it, and indeed he almost didn't do it, except his mother insisted. And Jesus, being a good Jew, would keep the Fifth* Commandment:

Exodus 20:12 Honour your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

I'm afraid, AV, that it's very possible you're going to have to accept a Jesus would would behave in ways you wouldn't...

*Fourth, if you let the Catholics do the counting...

 

[Loudmouth]

And in this instance "wine" does NOT mean grape juice, I guess?

That Welch's will go straight to your head.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

This was a simple warning to dilute ones wine. At that time wine was usually diluted with water. It is even advocated that one drink some wine and water for health purposes that you ignored.

The Bible is warning about excess here, it is not advocating a total abstention.

 

[AV1611VET]

And in this instance "wine" does NOT mean grape juice, I guess?

What does the context tell you?

 

[PsychoSarah]

What does the context tell you?

That pure water wasn't safe to drink, so any sane person before water filtration would drink very watered down alcoholic beverages to keep from becoming ill.

 

[AV1611VET]

This was a simple warning to dilute ones wine.

Correct.

This passage is dealing with alcoholic wine.

Proverbs is what is called Hebrew poetry; and this passage is what is called complementary poetry.

In other words, a statement is made, and the next statement compliments the first.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Notice here where "wine" is complemented by the phrase, "whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

 

[AV1611VET]

That pure water wasn't safe to drink, so any sane person before water filtration would drink very watered down alcoholic beverages to keep from becoming ill.

If you guys want to justify drinking, that's your prerogative.

If you guys want to justify Jesus creating alcoholic wine, that's your prerogative.

Just don't think for one minute I'm going to buy it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If you guys want to justify drinking, that's your prerogative.

If you guys want to justify Jesus creating alcoholic wine, that's your prerogative.

Just don't think for one minute I'm going to buy it.

I can give you historical evidence for the practice; AV, it isn't like they were getting drunk off of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

I can give you historical evidence for the practice; AV, it isn't like they were getting drunk off of it.

Drinking is a sin.

Jesus turned water into grape juice.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Drinking is a sin.

Jesus turned water into grape juice.

Jesus didn't continue to do so after he died, regardless of what the beverage ended up being. Drinking is a sin to you. But it would have been neigh necessary for survival in the past.

 

[quatona]

What does the context tell you?

The context of what different meanings a literalist wants the same word to have, depending on his preconceptions?

 

[AV1611VET]

The context of what different meanings a literalist wants the same word to have, depending on his preconceptions?

But what does the context tell you?

Are you afraid to answer because you think you might be shown wrong?