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My 9 year old with mild autism is having some problems

MomT

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Hello Everyone,
I am a mom to a 9 year old boy that is having issues with thoughts about God. He is constantly thinking that everything he thinks or does as a result is a sin. It is becoming an all consuming issue for him. These thoughts seem to be intrusive and unreasonable. Telling him to ignore them doesn't seem to be helping. He will say things like "I just rolled my eyes, and I think I did it on purpose to Jesus, and maybe he left my heart." He has also said that walking backward is like walking away from Jesus. He says he can't make these thoughts stop. He has never been diagnosed as having OCD, but I am wondering if this may be the case. Does anyone have any advice for me? I keep praying, and trying to help him, but I may not have the right words.
Thanks!
 
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hedrick

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I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not going to say whether this is OCD or not. But it sounds like it might be worth asking a real one. Also, are you aware that there is an OCD forum here? They would probably be better able to suggest things to do.

But there's something else. It seems to me that 9 is old enough for what I'm going to suggest. You might want to explain to him the difference between feelings and real relationships. A way to start it might be, a lot of kids get mad at their parents and say "I hate you. I don't want to be you son any more." If he said that, would you immediately say "oh, he's not my son any more" and throw him out of the house? Of course not. Why not? Because you know that he doesn't really mean it. Everybody has bad feelings from time to time. That doesn't change their relationship with their parents or God, because it's not based on temporary feelings. You can't make his worries go away. He may feel that he's rejected God. But God knows what he really means. [You also would love him even if he really, truly rejected you. But that starts going down paths you probably don't need to follow in this case.]

Getting his feelings to go away is going to be a long battle. It may need medical help. I don't have any real insight there. But my suggestion is that you may be able to help him understand enough about how God works that he'll know God hasn't really left him, even though it feels like it. For the moment he may have to let the feelings happen, but realize that they don't change anything.

I'm guessing that this approach is enough, and you won't have to get into justification by faith alone. It appears that Martin Luther actually had something like OCD, and his theology grew out of the same kind of doubts your son is having (though for different reasons). But in this case I don't think your son really has sinned at all, and it seems like that's the easiest way to deal with him. If you need an update on justification by faith alone, please feel to ask.
 
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MomT

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Thank you so much for your help, Hedrick. I will look at the OCD threads later today. I read bits and pieces of your response to my son. He found it very helpful to hear another person's point of view. He does have a psychologist that has been a regular since he was 2. I will call her to seek her advice. He has been released by her and his developmental pediatrician, but some new things like the situation now are popping up. He seems to be extra sensitive to food textures right now also. It seems like a sensory "storm" is brewing. Please, pray for us as we navigate some new waters.
He did smile this morning when I read some of your advice, and said that he felt better:clap:
Thank you!
 
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hedrick

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Thank you so much for your help, Hedrick. I will look at the OCD threads later today. I read bits and pieces of your response to my son. He found it very helpful to hear another person's point of view. He does have a psychologist that has been a regular since he was 2. I will call her to seek her advice. He has been released by her and his developmental pediatrician, but some new things like the situation now are popping up. He seems to be extra sensitive to food textures right now also. It seems like a sensory "storm" is brewing. Please, pray for us as we navigate some new waters.
He did smile this morning when I read some of your advice, and said that he felt better:clap:
Thank you!

I'm glad to hear that. While I hate to give advice on OCD (never having had it or known anyone who has) some of the things I've read suggest that dealing with the feelings may be more useful them trying to avoid them. By the I mean he may have to accept that he's going to have these thoughts for a while. But every time he has one, say to himself "I know God won't really give up on me for that. Jesus died for me" and then go on with his life. But to do that he'll need confidence that the things he's done or thought don't upset God or his relationship with God. I realize that's easier for me to say than for him to do. I'll pray for him.
 
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dayhiker

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Hi Momt, Welcome to CF.
Since it seems each to focus on sin, I'd emphases those scriptures that speak of us being created in the image of God, that we are God's children, how much God loves his people.
Personally, I can't relate to what your son is going thru, as I'm very optimistic. Sounds like there might be a pessimistic disposition there as well. I thought of Martin Luther just like Hedrick did.
 
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MomT

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Thank you for the warm welcome, dayhiker. I agree that my son has a pessimistic disposition. He analyzes so much, and his questioning is often negative in nature. Trying to get him to focus on the positive can be frustrating for both of us, which is why I have been seeking advice from other Christians. I don't want him to feel my frustration that is also mixed with a bit of worry over how long this may go on for him. I told him to remember the words that Hedrick gave in his post. I am trying to reassure him that God will not leave him because of these thoughts he is having, and that he is not sinning because of them. He is very smart, but also a very literal 9 year old when it comes to explaining faith. He loves God and is concerned about doing the right things. I am so thankful for that! Thank you so much for your response:) I will definitely emphasize on the verses you spoke of.
 
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hedrick

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I can relate to the literalism. I had an Aspie Sunday School student a few years ago who never did believe me that Mat 5:29-30 wasn't intended literally.

I'm not sure it's going to help your son, but if you want to understand the reference to Luther, here's a good explanation: Martin Luther, Grace and OCD.

I'm just going to go through a random collection of Bible passages, in case some help.

There are lots of good Bible passages to reassure someone who has sinned. Luke 10:18, and Luke 17:4 are passages I've been using with some people. God isn't looking for perfect people. He's looking for people who trust him for their salvation. Luther got a similar message from Rom 1:17.

But what's different about his situation is that I don't think he has sinned, so those passages are only indirectly relevant. He's imagining that God is offended by things that he actually isn't. But it's hard to find an exact passage. In many ways Mat 5 from about 21 - 42 is relevant. This is where Jesus talks about intention. I don't think he has the intention to reject God. But Mat 5:27-30 is a two-edged sword, because many people understand it to say that God cares not just about what you do but even about stray thoughts. I think that's a misunderstanding of lust. I believe Jesus has in mind seeing a woman as a sex object, not the kinds of thoughts a teen has about a pretty girl.

Maybe the most relevant is the repeated theme in the NT is that God judges the heart, not just words and thoughts. E.g. Heb 4:12, but there are other passages. See also Mat 15:17-20 which says it is what comes from the heart that defiles us, not the mouth. This is the Biblical justification for my first response: that God judges based on what you mean. (I trust that even an Aspie can understand the metaphorical use of "heart.")

But I also fall back on general passages about God, the prodigal son, abandoning 99 sheep to look for the one that is lost. God loves us. He wants us with him. He's not going to give up on someone because of a stray thought.

In some ways Job is relevant. In that story Job loses all of his family and goods. The book is a discussion between Job and his friends. His friends make excuses: maybe Job sinned, maybe it's somehow all for the best. But Job won't believe it. He is mad at God. He demands that God show up and defend himself, and he's not too polite about it. God actually does show up. Job quickly changes his tune. But at the end God says Job was right, not his friends. God can deal with anger and insults, as long as we trust him.

If a general passage of reassurance is helpful, Rom 8:31-39 is the classic.

You might also want to explore his concept of what God wants from him. I could imagine a literal-minded 9 year old hearing or reading something that sends him off on a completely wrong idea. I've seen perfectly normal adults and young adults have this kind of thing. Some Christians have gotten the impression that God is sitting there looking for violations of the rules. Make sure he knows that Jesus died for him. Sins aren't going to cause God to give up someone that he's paid for. In fact Jesus is a lot more concerned about having people help other people than whether they are perfect. I've looked through every passage where Jesus talks about judgement, and there's virtually nothing about rejecting people because they are sinners. Rather, the question is whether they accept Jesus, and whether they bear fruit, i.e. serve others. See the parable of the sheep and goats.
 
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MomT

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You are so wonderful to help me so, Hedrick! These are great references, and I appreciate it so much. I have a younger brother that is similar to my son, and he has decided that he is now an atheist. I prayed when I first knew that my son has autism that he would come to know The Lord, and be able to understand faith and salvation. I didn't know at the time to what degree his autism would have on his understanding of Christianity. I have to be very careful in the way that I explain things to my son, and I will use these verses you have referenced. Thank You:)
 
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Hello Everyone,
I am a mom to a 9 year old boy that is having issues with thoughts about God. He is constantly thinking that everything he thinks or does as a result is a sin. It is becoming an all consuming issue for him. These thoughts seem to be intrusive and unreasonable. Telling him to ignore them doesn't seem to be helping. He will say things like "I just rolled my eyes, and I think I did it on purpose to Jesus, and maybe he left my heart." He has also said that walking backward is like walking away from Jesus. He says he can't make these thoughts stop. He has never been diagnosed as having OCD, but I am wondering if this may be the case. Does anyone have any advice for me? I keep praying, and trying to help him, but I may not have the right words.
Thanks!

Hello MomT,
I am a retired special ed teacher and I specialized in autism. Not knowing your son and his particular habits and personality makes any advice hard to give. Have him sit down and draw and write about all the good things he knows about Jesus. He can add to his list anytime he learns something new. when he rolls his eyes and says strange things, have him write why he thinks rolling his eyes makes Jesus leave him. Communication is hard for him and he may make bizzare statements about Jesus, but something else is bothering him. Social stories are an excellant way for him to communicate.

I aways stared my social stories as "When I roll my eyes....". let him take it from there. Be paitent, it may take more than one story before you can find the problem.

grandma
 
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MomT

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Thanks, grandma! That is a good idea. We used social stories when he went to preschool for bathroom time, but I never thought to use one in this situation. We will try it for sure. Just a bit of background on my boy....he is very verbal, inquisitive, overly analytical, and has some anxiety issues. He was dealing with a lot of catastrophic thinking before we started taking him to a second psychologist. This particular doc put him on antidepressants for a year along with Abilify. She did not want him on it any longer than a year, but I am wrestling with the thought that he may need it again. I don't care for the weight gain when he is on the Abilify, but we need functionality. He used to stim a lot by flapping his hands and grimacing. He does that very little now. He will develop little tics from time to time, and has most sensory issues with sounds. He knew his alphabet by 18 months, and is a very good reader. He has always had an extreme interest in automobiles, and when he was very small the alphabet, and spinning anything that he could. He is sweet and affectionate, and is concerned with doing what God wants him to.
Thanks for your help!
 
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dayhiker

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Looks like your going to be busy with all this good advice.

I love the literal view of things. I would often hear a non-literal phrase from someone who I could make a comment on as if it was literal that I thought was funny. Most NT people didn't get it.

Its great that your son is so smart. But it means that someone will have to find a lot of answers for him. I say there is always answers that some Christian has thought thru. But since most Christians don't have any interest in those time they tend to say the inquisitive person should just forget about it. But of course we can't. So ask him not to make no make a decision till the answer can be found.

I'd look to see if you can change his emphases from obeying God's rules to loving God. There are a lot of verses with this in view. Love is the only way the Bible says we can fulfill the commands of God. The greatest if love. 1st command: love God; 2nd command: love people. etc. There there is the whole law vs grace of Galatians.

That's enough thinking to tell you this is a long term stuff. Have fun in all this. Its part of your sons therapy. He needs fun as well as all this thinking.
 
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Do you have an austic organization in your area? Or an Occupational therapist you could work with?? Check out things for sensory issues. My son is Aperger's and had sound sentitive issues. we had to do a sound desentization for him. he also had skin sensitive issues. we had to desentize his skin also. He could not stand people close to him because it made his world spin rapidly. Later after high school, he joined the National Guard and loved it! He was in the demolition squad!!! So there is hope... find some one to help you with these issues. the sooner you start, the better his life will be. Never take the sensitivity issues for granted, it is very real to them.

I forgot to add.... he quit taking his meds in high school.
grandma
 
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MomT

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He had occupational and physical therapy while in his preschool years. He has been released from them for a few years. His developmental pediatrician released him as well. He has been a lot better up until recently with some things coming up that I have posted about. He has PDD-NOS, which is fairly close to Asperger's in some areas. I am definitely going to call his psychologist tomorrow to possibly get some things rolling again for him. It was very difficult to get the services for him back when you could actually see him physically stim. It was a struggle to get docs to take anything seriously until I forced a stimming episode at the pediatrician's office. He no longer needs any services at school either. He still has an IEP in place, but has met all of his goals, so we keep putting on it that he has issues staying focused. We didn't want to terminate the IEP in case some problems came up as he matures. Thanks again! I'll be working on it:)
 
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Hi MomT!

Im a Mum of two, both boys, and both with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Eldest is 20 years old with a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome, and youngest is almost 19 years old, with a diagnosis of Autism, and he also has Anxiety/Depression.

Just a little background info, my youngest had to be put on medication for Anxiety and Depression at about 7 years of age. He was extremely worried about stuff, and was always putting himself down, and generally seeing the negative in everything. It made no difference what we did, how encouraging and positive we were, etc etc. He also gradually stopped eating, and after a barrage of tests to rule out a physical reason, our Paediatrition trialled him on medication. It made a HUGE difference. We have trialled him off meds a couple of times over the years, but he goes downhill very quickly once the meds are out of his system.

We are Christians, and go to church regularly. Over time, I have found my son really struggles with being hard on himself, especially when a sermon is preached where they talk about hell, and sin etc. I end up having to go into "damage control" afterwards, because he is sooooo hard on himself. Usually what helps him, is I focus on Jesus, and how much He loves my son, and how he died for us on the cross. I remind my son that God knows his heart, and knows my son loves Him. I remind him that we ALL make mistakes, and no-one is perfect. Usually, talking to my son about the love God has for us etc, settles him. It really breaks my heart when I see the condemnation in my sons eyes, for himself at times.

Anyways, just thought I would share a lil about what helps my son. Hope it makes sense. Im not the best at putting things into words at times! LOL!
 
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MomT

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Hi Mama Dory, You put it just right! Your post is very helpful for me as a parent. I am very hard on myself when it comes to wondering if I am doing something wrong. I try to be as positive as I can, and help my son to gain confidence. I feel a lot of times that I must be falling short somehow. Your son sounds very similar to mine. You're right on when you say you can see the self-condemnation in his eyes, I too see that in my son. It is heart-wrenching. I am going to ask about meds again for him tomorrow. Thank you for sharing with me.
 
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eatenbylocusts

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A few days ago after coming home from a hard day at work, my son started talking about a situation that he is anticipating will be negative. I told him he really needed to stop dwelling on the negative (again), hope the situation will be positive, but be ready for anything. Later in the evening he told me to have a good day at work the next day and don't be negative. Just love getting my own advice back.

My son is 20, diagnosed with ADD with asperger traits. He takes concerta and clonidine (off-label use for tics and overly spontaneous behavior). After attending our present church for about a year I saw tremendous growth in my son. Such great joy to see my child take on Christianity as his own. My aunt and uncle spent time in the Church of Christ and because of some issues going on there was some discussion about losing one's faith for not forgiving someone. I didn't realize how much this bothered my son at first, but he spoke to elders and other church members about this because he was so concerned about losing his salvation.

Yes, my son takes things more literally than others and has a burden for his friends to come to Christ. He has brought two of them to church which is better than what I have done. I truly see my son as someone who is trying to work out his salvation with fear and trembling and I am humbled by it, but your post has reminded me that I may need to spend a bit more time encouraging him. Thank you for that.

Just a thought; perhaps you can make a poster or even find some framed art to hang on the walls that remind of us God's promises and hope? Satan is the father of lies and is always seeking to devour us. One of my friends believes that we should praise God continually because satan will not want to be around with all that praise going on. I would pray over your son also and seek God's protection around him and for God to give him wisdom.
 
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MomT

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Thank you all so much for your caring advice, and prayers. I have been very busy with my son this last week. I will be taking him to a psychologist that specializes in autism on Wednesday. Despite all we have told him, and also speaking with our Pastor, he still seems to be spiraling. Please, continue to pray for our family. It is appreciated so much!
 
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