Must everyone eventually become a SDA?

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Catholicism rejects the rapture as error and I for one WANT TO BE LEFT BEHIND.

Good for the Catholics then for getting that right. The secret rapture notion bes absolute bunkum.

Your post here bes interesting, looking forward to whatever more you have to share in this vein. BTW Moriah bes raised Catholic.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

No of course not. The pharisees were exceptional Sabbath keepers and they plotted to kill the Messiah. I would guess that even to tSDA they don't think of the Sabbath as some passport to salvation, though some of them may say things which would make you nearly think that.

Two questions help suss this out:
(1) Bes X necessary for salvation?
(2) Can (or will) the neglect or absence of X negate salvation?

Often those answering in the negative for question #1 as a means of cloaking their true convictions on the subject (because they knows deep down this bes wrong!) will give themselves away by either answering in the affirmative for question #2 or hemming and hawing sufficiently that you know they bes dancing on the fence.

Scripture teaches one thing necessary for salvation only, and that bes genuine trust in Christ for the provision of it from start to finish including every "step" and "stage" from "here" to "there".

 

[Your Neighbor]

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position, and join the ranks of the opposition." The Great Controversy (1888), page 608, paragraph 1

 

[StormyOne]

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position, and join the ranks of the opposition." The Great Controversy (1888), page 608, paragraph 1

Was that written by her or borrowed by her? Does it make a difference?

We are to put our faith in Christ, not a belief or a set of beliefs.... including what is called the 3 angels message....

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position, and join the ranks of the opposition." The Great Controversy (1888), page 608, paragraph 1

The Bible proposes only one solution to fulfilling the lusts of the flesh (which remain with us until death or translation): that proposed in Galatians 5:16
[bible]Galatians 5:16[/bible]
No amount of gritting teeth, mustering up "will power" (whatever the *bleep* that bes), flagellating self (literally or figuratively) or diving into behavioral modification programs, whether secular or religious in nature, will amount to a hill of beans here. You could suffocate and stifle your evil inclinations for years and twenty years later be tempted by the same thing just as strongly as if you had indulged it the whole time instead of fighting it. Romans 7 lays out the dilemma and makes it very clear: a law of sin resides in our very flesh and until that flesh gets changed, will continue to do so. The ONLY escape from it bes in walking in the Spirit; nothing else can or will do squat about it, including all the man-made guilt trips and step-by-step instructions and lectures on personal responsibility, or toxic soteriologies like the "yo-yo salvation" invented by certain legalistic wolves who devour and spare not the flock. Human so-called "obedience" bes a load of ego-driven spiritual-pride-sneaking-in CRAP.

-- and woe betide those denominations that then want to put off the outpouring of the Holy Spirit for some unspecified date in the future, effectively systematically entrapping its people in guilt and depriving them of the only power that can avail them anything.

 

[Your Neighbor]

...
No amount of gritting teeth, mustering up "will power" (whatever the *bleep* that bes), flagellating self (literally or figuratively) or diving into behavioral modification programs, ...

Christians don't do those things.

The Christian's life is not a modification or improvement of the old, but a transformation of nature. There is a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Christians don't do those things.

Yeah, unfortunately, they do. They get duped, they get hoodwinked, same as anyone else, though perhaps in different forms.

The Christian's life is not a modification or improvement of the old, but a transformation of nature. There is a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.

Definitely not a modification or improvement of the old -- not behavioral modification of the flesh. That bes a dead end works trip doomed to failure and increasing despair.
But not sure about the phrase "transformation of nature". The flesh does not undergo transformation. The mind gets renewed, and comes into agreement with God (Romans 7) and able to recognize the functional law of sin operative in the flesh and devise a sense of identity-separation from it enough to yearn for deliverance from it. But the only way the lusts of the flesh get denied bes when one bes walksy in the Spirit. That would, it presumes, parallel the latter statements about death to self and sin (putting to death the flesh, old nature, etc.) and how this can ONLY occur by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.

Something in the wording, though, bes not entirely there. Moriah cannot momentarily place its claw upon it but there bes something there not quite on the mark. Hence it prefers, and will stick with, the Biblical humanspeak utilised to convey these types of soteriological considerations, if you don't mind...

 

[Your Neighbor]

Yeah, unfortunately, they do.

No, fortunately, they don't.

Who's a Christian?

"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9).

"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matt 16:24).

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

No, fortunately, they don't.

Who's a Christian?

"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9).

"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matt 16:24).

People can have the Spirit of Christ and still make human errors. People can have the Spirit of Christ and still err in judgment, believe something false, even get tricked or deceived.
It happens.

So yes, unfortunately, Christians can and do get sucked into toxic soteriology traps. Then they make others miserable and drive them away from God as a result.

If you don't agree, oh well. Nobody died and made either of us God.

 

[Pythons]

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position, and join the ranks of the opposition." The Great Controversy (1888), page 608, paragraph 1

It’s good to see you here Neighbor. Perhaps we can start where we left off in Traditional Seventh-day Adventist land. As I remember, we were discussing the shibboleth doctrine of how one not sinning is proof that the person has the Holy Spirit. I can hardly believe it, you are presenting the same teaching as you did in our last discussion. I myself think it was beneath you to remove your previous signature text that so boldly stated your doctrine. I for one would like to see you put it back where it was intead of where ever it is that you've placed it.

Here is the URL to the thread where Your Neighbor and I exchange understandings. It's only two pages long and in my view well worth the read.

http://christianforums.com/t5427766-bible-quotes-1-applicable-to-the-outer-court.html

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Thank you for that link Pythons. Now things bes a bit more clear here. You went up against one of them what merchandises in the poison. You seem to have the closer accord with truth in this particular matter. Stay and protect us from the vicious poison, for you understand that ALL means ALL, and in such understanding alone bes hope.