Muslims - What do you think?

Your reaction to these lighters?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAJ0b4z0

Lighters commemorating 9/11 attack seized en route to Gaza

Cigarette lighter showing plane striking the World Trade Center in New York
 
In the context of the monitoring process carried out by security forces in order to uncover the smuggling of arms and ammunition to the Palestinian Authority, cigarette lighters depicting the attack on the World Trade Center next to Osama Bin Laden, were found. The lighters were to be sold in Palestinian Authority areas.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0mdn0
 

Brian45

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Originally posted by s0uljah
Your reaction to these lighters?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAJ0b4z0

Lighters commemorating 9/11 attack seized en route to Gaza

Cigarette lighter showing plane striking the World Trade Center in New York
 
In the context of the monitoring process carried out by security forces in order to uncover the smuggling of arms and ammunition to the Palestinian Authority, cigarette lighters depicting the attack on the World Trade Center next to Osama Bin Laden, were found. The lighters were to be sold in Palestinian Authority areas.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0mdn0

souljah  ,  this is the first time I have heard of these lighters , but if it's true  ,  then I think your thread deserves a bump .         :)

Also  waiting for reply from muslims .              :D
 
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zeeshan

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Good Afternoon,
I hope all of you are well :) .
Celebrating the death of innocent civilians is wrong. If these lighters were, infact, used, to celebrate last years attacks or to show support for them, then it is not right.

Having said that, I must also say a few other things regarding the topic Souljah has brought up. What I am about to say has nothing to do with beliefs but it has something to do with facts. I hope those on this board who are supporters of the truth and justice as far as events in the world are concerned will think about what I am about to say. As far as those that want to support a particular group of people even if it means ignoring the truth and justice are concerned, all I can say is 'peace be on you'. I don't mean to offend anybody but I feel this has to be said.

1) Souljah, no personal offense meant but the site you have referred to is biased against the people of palestine. I know this because this site talks about palestinian terrorism but not of the terrorism that the state of Israel is committing against the palestinians. How I know that Israel is committing acts of terror against the palestinians, I will let you know in a while. If the site were unbiased, it would state both sides of the story.
Furthermore, the site refers to those palestinians that were celebrating after the 9/11 attacks and ofcourse, about these lighters that someone created. It may be that some palestinians were celebrating and distributing candies etc. after the attacks but palestinians were not celebrating generally. This site fails to mention that the proportion of people it is talking about is very low compared to the whole palestinian population.

2) Whereas this lighter story might be true (although I have not heard it anywhere else), we should not use this as a basis for judging palestinians and definitely not for judging Muslims. Let me try to explain to you why not. First of all, it is a fact which you can find out quite easily if you try to read about palestinian history that the palestinian people were peace-loving people before the Israeli occupation so it does not make sense for them to be rejoicing at the murder of innocent people (in general). Secondly, consider the situation the Palestinians are in. The women are being raped, the children are being killed, palestinian homes are being bull-dozed (in some cases with the residents still in the home), they are being pushed from their homes into refugee camps, they aren't being left in peace even in these camps, lots of them have been in refugee camps for decades and so on. Most of the people that are being killed or harmed have nothing to do with 'palestinian terror'. For those who are seekers of the truth and justice, what I have just said can be confirmed by either asking someone who has seen the plight of the palestinians for themselves or by looking to an unbiased source of international news. (By unbiased, I mean a source which represents both sides). This is what alot of poeple in the Toronto area have done and the result is that most people now understand that Israel is not doing the right thing. There are protests time and time again against the Israeli occupation by not only Muslims but also by orthodox Jews, Jewish rabbis, Christians and so on. It is a fact that most of what I have said is being done by the Israeli army...which is supported by the United States to atleast some extent. Now consider yourself in the situation of the palestinians. The only side of the United States they have seen is its weaponry...most of them haven't seen or met the general American people nor any other aspect of the United States...except for its weapons. Now, assume you are a palestinian living in those conditions for decades and there seems to be no hope for you. Then, one day, you find out that the country that is helping your oppressors oppress you has suffered some kind of loss. Given such a context, it is highly probable that your first reaction would not be a negative one like remorse but a positive one like hope or happiness. The point is that whereas celebrating the killing of thousands of innocent civilians is not right, we must realize the situation which people that are doing so are in.

3) About the issue of Israeli state terror, I have already mentioned that those Jews, Christians, etc. who have made an attempt to find out the truth about the middle east crisis and that are not adamant about supporting Israel no matter what happens have reached the conclusion that Israel is not right in its occupation of the palestinian territories since it is treating the palestinians unfairly and inhumanely. Furthermore, even some Canadian politicians have realized this. A few days ago, a news story was shown on CBC in which a Canadian politician went to Israel and tried to pass an Israeli post to an area where entry was not allowed by outsiders to see the plight of the palestinians within that area. He told the Israeli soldier 'you have no right to stop me from entering'. Ofcourse, he was pushed back. Virtually the entire world realizes that Israel is committing inhumane acts against the palestinians and virtually every humanitarian agency knows and people of all faiths have spoken out against it. If you do not believe most of the world, then go to Israel and see what is going on. If you are a supporter of justice, then you will agree with me completely on your return. These inhumane acts are causing terror in the hearts of palestinians so it is terrorism...Israeli state terrorism.

4) Coming back to the issue of biases in the media, I feel that biases in the media (both in the east and the west) are one of the reasons that there are divisions in the human race which we don't need in the era in which we live and which none of us are finding helpful. Unfortunately, alot of the American television news channels are biased as well in some of their international news stories. That is a tall claim so I will attempt to prove the claim via a few examples. When the 9/11 attacks took place, alot of the American tv news channels showed pictures of Palestinians celebrating in such a way that it looked like everyone was celebrating. Yet, most people were not celebrating. When Afghanistan was bombed, these channels made it look like there was almost no harm done to innocent civilians. Yet, alot of harm was done to innocent civilians. CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) went to the refugee camps on the Afghan-Pakistan border and interviewed some of the refugees there. They found that there were villages that were completely destroyed (which left lots of innocent people homeless) and disease was spreading in the camps which was killing innocent people. They asked the people why they were in the refugee camps and the afghans told them that 'we are not running away from the taliban but from the american bombs'. This was on CBC television. When the United States put sanctions on Iraq, the most harm was done to innocent children who were killed in the thousands. This can be verified by any international unbiased news source, by people who saw the plight of people in Iraq or by the humanitarian agencies that were monitoring the situation. Just yesterday, I saw one American news channel showing what Al-Jazeera network was saying on 9/11. If the translation was correct, what Al-Jazeera was saying (or not saying) was biased but I was surprised at what the person on this American channel said (or didn't say) afterwards because that was biased too. Al-Jazeera was referring to the Americans being terrorists because they killed thousands of Iraqi children and they appeared to make no reference to the Al-Qaeda being terrorists. Later on, the person on the American News channel said something to the effect of 'they are calling the American terrorists but are not terming the Al-Qaeda to be so'. Well, this proved the biasedness of this American news channel because it has never termed any of the American foreign policies as terrorist policies although some foreign policies have been the result of harm and even death to innocent civilians. Most American News channels portray only those Muslims of Muslim-majority countries that have a negative attitude but not the other Muslims although it is only a small proportion of Muslims that possess Negative attitudes. How many Americans have heard about Abdul Sattar Edhi? He is a Muslim who is devoted to helping humanity. When violence was widespread in the city of Karachi in Pakistan, his agency was the only one who used to pick up dead bodies and take them for burial. He and his agency help locate lost children, help get lost children back to their homes, treat those that are poor at no charge and donate to humanitarian causes. His was one of the many Muslim agencies that donated towards the 9/11 attacks. Yet, how many news channels in America have said that and how many Americans know that? And the list of biases goes on.
I understand that life in North America is a busy one and so most North Americans do not get more than a little while to catch up on the news (including international news). I also understand that most North Americans are open-minded people...open to the truth and supporters of justice. That is why it is very important that we try to find out about the truth about what is going on in the world. Alot of North Americans (of all faiths) have done that and the truth of the world has changed their views drastically. I mentioned one such person a few days ago, Dr. William Baker. I heard him speak about the plight of the Palestinians, Kashmiris, and the Afghans. What he said confirmed what I already knew some of which I have mentioned above. The best way to find out the complete truth about what is going on in the world is to go and see what is happening for ourselves. The second best thing is to hear someone (with unbiased views) who has been there. But atleast, we must try switching to unbiased news channels so that we get the whole truth. The western news channels that I have found to be most unbiased so far are the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) and the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation).

The bottom line is this : Let us not get deceived by what the biased part of the media is telling us (both in the east and in the west) because if we let that happen, we will see ourselves getting further apart without any justifiability and if we let that happen, we will all be harming ourselves no matter whether we are Christians, Jews, Muslims or followers of any other faith. It is true that we probably will not start believing in exactly the same things in the near future but atleast we can support each other in the causes of justice and truth.

Thankyou for taking the time to read this message :) .

Your brother in humanity,
Zeeshan.
 
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Hank

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Originally posted by zeeshan
This is what alot of poeple in the Toronto area have done and the result is that most people now understand that Israel is not doing the right thing.
Hey, you live in Toronto? So do I. If you do pick up the latest NOW paper, it got some interesting statistics on US arms sales around the Middle East. -You may like that.


Also I agree there are two sides to the Palestine/Israeli conflict, but all I know is the side from Jerusalem, this is where I get e-mails from, so a biased opinion against Palestine.


Food for thought, if your leader says, death to Israel, bombs explode, and you truly do not know if you will come home after doing the shopping, when you offered 95% territory of Palestinian demanded but are rejected based on some religious excuse - do you really think there will ever be peace in this area? This hate between them is so great, from my perspective, I doubt we will see any kind of real peace unless BOTH sides start from scratch and look at themselves and say, let’s lick our deep wounds and think about our children.
 
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Lacmeh

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Ah ok, so they gained land through war. This is of course justification enough to deny those people medical care, torture those people, make them homeless, deny them human rights. Please note,that Israel is a member of the UNO and chooses to ignore its resolutions. Iraq is a member of the UNO and ignores its resolutions. No bombs for Israel, but bombs for Iraq?
Israel´s Prime minisater is a mass murderer and still in position. No one in the US seems to care. Saddam Hussein is a mass murderer and US wants to go to war to remove him.
US supported terrorists as well. US now a member of the axis of evil?
Talk about hypocrisy.
 
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Where do you get the information that Israel does those things? Reference?

Also, if the "entire" Arab community attacks a little country, and that little country kicks the ever living [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] out of the entire Arab community in six days, I think they are entitled to a bit of land as payment for being invaded.
 
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Lacmeh

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Reference?
Torture is a legitimate means of getting confessions in Israel.
Sharon is forbidden to ever attain the post as Minister of Defence, because of his war crimes. Now he is Prime Minister.
USA supported various right wing terrorists in South America. In El Salvador for example.
There are many rulings of the UN against Israel for their misconduct in Palestine, all are ignored.
Israel control posts won´t let people with emergency medical conditions pass with less control. Like highly pregnant women.
Israel courts rule, that families of terrorists to be automatically guilty by assosiation. That´s like the entire family is guilty to be an associate of his terrorist act. Which is a blatant ignorance of human rights.

I am not discussing Israel´s right to occupy terretory, I am discussing Israel´s misconducts in this terretory.

Now the US unquestionally supports a country, which flounts human rights and legalised torture with a war criminal for Prime minister.
 
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Lacmeh

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Souljah, just look up Israel and Torture at yahoo. You will find countless articles. Till 1999 Torture was legitimate in Israel. In my newspaper I read, that Israel itself now allowed this to continue cause of increased terrorist attacks. I am sorry, that I can´t provide a link.
I suppose we can all agree, that Amnesty International is not biased towards any political group. Look up on the AI reports of degrading and tortrourus practices in Israeli detention centers. There you can read an article about Israeli soldiers attacking Red Cross cars and installations. Those Red Cross members, were from Switzerland.
The practice of Israel bulldozing houses of families for no geater offense than being related to terrorists was in Europe all over the news. You can search for links at yahoo.
Sharon was never officially convicted as a war criminal. But in Israel he is forbidden to ever get into the position of Minister of defense. You can look it up in various links on yahoo, too.
Sharon allowed militia to enter Palestine refugee camps in Lebanon. The milita killed about 3 thousand people if memory serves correct.


Israel razes schools, driving the young people to the extremely radical muslim Koran schools. There the children hear nothing else but how bad ISrael and USA are. Then Israelis wonder, why so many Palestinians are terrorists or support them. Talk about stupidity.

Palestinians claim to be abused by Israel. Israel claims to not abuse them. These are occupied terretories. Common sense would dictate, that an in this conflict uninvolved parties would go there, look at the situation and evaluate it. Since it must be in interest of both sides to get the truth out. But international observers are not allowed to enter the Israel controlled terretories.
 
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