Muslims taxing non -Muslims

[mathinspiration]

I heard Muslims tax other religions especially Christians. How can Muslims say they are inclusive and don't force people to convert if they impose taxes on different beliefs than their own. If, you don't pay, you must become a muslim or be kill. Is that not force conversion?

 

[Another Lazarus]

Matt 10:28 “Don't be afraid of people. They can kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. The only one you should fear is God, the one who can send the body and the soul to be destroyed in hell.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...ter-of-bodily-survival.8043262/#post-72203890

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I heard Muslims tax other religions especially Christians. How can Muslims say they are inclusive and don't force people to convert if they impose taxes on different beliefs than their own. If, you don't pay, you must become a muslim or be kill. Is that not force conversion?

This is kind of like judging the actions of all christians based on what the pope does. Muslims act differently based on the country they are in.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I heard Muslims tax other religions especially Christians. How can Muslims say they are inclusive and don't force people to convert if they impose taxes on different beliefs than their own. If, you don't pay, you must become a muslim or be kill. Is that not force conversion?

It would be interesting if you could list all the current Muslim countries that collect the Jizya tax.

 

[Tolworth John]

It would be interesting if you could list all the current Muslim countries that collect the Jizya tax.

Not something that is easy to obtain figures on.
Islamic countries are not very open about there tax revenus and want to promote the idea that they are 'moderate islam' so are quite about this protection racket.
have a look at this article which does identify some islamis leaders who are open about plundering Christian residents.
Islamic Jizya: Fact and Fiction

 

[Hank77]

I heard Muslims tax other religions especially Christians. How can Muslims say they are inclusive and don't force people to convert if they impose taxes on different beliefs than their own. If, you don't pay, you must become a muslim or be kill. Is that not force conversion?

Jizya - Wikipedia

 

[buzuxi02]

In Turkey you were able to avoid paying tax if you had an attractive daughter to give up for marriage to a turkish VIP, or you gave up your son to be raised as a jannisery. Most Turks are simply greeks and armenians who converted to avoid the tax and other hardships

 

[Niblo]

Not something that is easy to obtain figures on.
Islamic countries are not very open about there tax revenus and want to promote the idea that they are 'moderate islam' so are quite about this protection racket.
have a look at this article which does identify some islamis leaders who are open about plundering Christian residents.
Islamic Jizya: Fact and Fiction

No Islamic government imposed jizya these days; in spite of what certain of their citizens might desire.

 

[TurkishChristians]

Most Turks are simply greeks and armenians who converted to avoid the tax and other hardships

No, we are not. The amount of Greek, Armenian converts is very very little. And, They are acting like Kurdish (not Turkish)

 

[Tolworth John]

No Islamic government imposed jizya these days; in spite of what certain of their citizens might desire.

True and I gave one reason why.
That said neither do the governments stop the tax being extorted or protect minority groups from islamic fundermentalists.
I read more reports of muslim neighbours seeking to protect their Christian neighbours then I do of the police vigerously seeking those who have attacked Christians.

 

[buzuxi02]

No, we are not. The amount of Greek, Armenian converts is very very little. And, They are acting like Kurdish (not Turkish)

Most AnatolianTurks are white. Genetically no different than those people from the Balkans. No Anatolian Turk has any resemblance to the authentic Turks known as the Tujue or Tuvan tribes.
My great great grandfather was a "Turk" who converted back to Orthodox christianity in the late 1800's. In reality he was always a native of Peleponisos Greece whose family converted less than two centuries earlier and adopted Islam and the Tutkish language out of convenience.
In the Pontos region of Turkey in Trabzon Anatolian Turks still bake bread by making the sign of the cross across the dough simply saying its a custom their ancestors passed onto them. Other customs the Anatolian Turks still retain from the pre-christian greek colonies is belief in the evil eye and the Zeimbekiko dance of greek pagan Asia Minor. Obviously if the Anatolian Turks were actually Mongols who replaced the natives, they would look more like Mongols and never would have inherited the culture of the natives.

 

[Favourofone]

Historically Jizya was a brilliant tool of religious conversion. Generally speaking people care more for their pocket line than of the beliefs of their grandparents.

 

[buzuxi02]

Historically Jizya was a brilliant tool of religious conversion. Generally speaking people care more for their pocket line than of the beliefs of their grandparents.

Sad but true...

 

[Niblo]

Historically Jizya was a brilliant tool of religious conversion. Generally speaking people care more for their pocket line than of the beliefs of their grandparents.

Etymologically, Jizya means ‘payment in return’. It’s related to ‘jaza’ meaning ‘compensation’.

Jizya was levied only on able-bodied free men who could to pay it. The amount was generally low (around one dinar per year). Paying the tax placed one under the protection of the Muslim state. It exempted one from military service, and from the taxes levied on Muslims.

If a Muslim leader failed to provide his subjects with adequate security, he was obliged to refund the tax. Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn, for example, returned Jizya payments to his Christian subjects when he was compelled to withdraw his army from Syria.

Converting to Islam in order to avoid Jizya ('care for one's pocket) was a bad business move; since Muslims are obligated to pay Zakāt (2.5% of earning from all sources). Under the caliphates, the collection and expenditure of Zakāt was a function of the state.

If Jizya was intended to encourage conversation to Islam then monks and clergy would not have been exempted; neither would women.

 

[Favourofone]

The amount was generally low (around one dinar per year).

The application of jizya varied in the course of Islamic history. Together with kharāj, a term that was sometimes used interchangeably with jizya,[21][22][23] taxes levied on non-Muslim subjects were among the main sources of revenues collected by some Islamic polities, such as the Ottoman Empire.[24] Jizya rate was usually a fixed annual amount depending on the financial capability of the payer.[25] Sources comparing taxes levied on Muslims and jizya differ as to their relative burden depending on time, place, specific taxes under consideration, and other factors.[1][26][27][28]

I would imagine Ottoman Empire wouldn’t have gotten their main source of income from non-Muslims if it had been one dinar a year.

Your somewhat rosy description sounds more of idealized version what it might have originally meant to have been than what politics made of it later.

 

[Arthra]

I understand that in early Islamic countries the Jizya meant a source of income to the state so mass conversions of Christians would be a loss of the tax:

".... scholars largely agree that early Muslim rulers adapted existing systems of taxation and tribute that were established under previous rulers of the conquered lands, such as those of the Byzantine and Sasanian empires.[10][17][18][19][20]

The application of jizya varied in the course of Islamic history. Together with kharāj, a term that was sometimes used interchangeably with jizya,[21][22][23] taxes levied on non-Muslim subjects were among the main sources of revenues collected by some Islamic polities, such as the Ottoman Empire.[24"

Jizya - Wikipedia

 

[Niblo]

The application of jizya varied in the course of Islamic history. Together with kharāj, a term that was sometimes used interchangeably with jizya,[21][22][23] taxes levied on non-Muslim subjects were among the main sources of revenues collected by some Islamic polities, such as the Ottoman Empire.[24] Jizya rate was usually a fixed annual amount depending on the financial capability of the payer.[25] Sources comparing taxes levied on Muslims and jizya differ as to their relative burden depending on time, place, specific taxes under consideration, and other factors.[1][26][27][28]

I would imagine Ottoman Empire wouldn’t have gotten their main source of income from non-Muslims if it had been one dinar a year.

Your somewhat rosy description sounds more of idealized version what it might have originally meant to have been than what politics made of it later.

Hello.

My 'somewhat rosy description' is factual. However......politics is what politics does.

 

[Favourofone]

My 'somewhat rosy description' is factual.

Bit pointless to say it was usually a dinar as it seems to have been whatever the current rulers decided it was.

 

[Niblo]

Bit pointless to say it was usually a dinar as it seems to have been whatever the current rulers decided it was.

Usually a dinar. Certainly less than Zakāt.

I’m a UK citizen - born and bred (Welsh in origin…the oldest ethnic group in these islands).

If I’m late (up to three months) submitting my tax return I will be charged a penalty of £100, and this will not be refunded, even if no tax is owing.

Over three months late will get me a daily penalty of £10 per day, to a maximum of £900.

Six months late will get me a penalty of £300 (or 5% of the tax owing if this is greater).

Twelve months late will get me another £300 (or 5% of the tax owing if this is greater).

In exceptional circumstances a higher penalty of up to 100% of the tax due is possible.

I can avoid all of this by paying my taxes on time.

A non-Muslim male of military-service age could avoid his 1 dinar a year tax by joining the army; or by becoming too poor to pay the tax (or by becoming a Muslim, of course).

Do you know anyone who simply loves to pay their taxes; anyone who doesn't whinge about having to do so?

 

[Favourofone]

Do you know anyone who simply loves to pay their taxes; anyone who doesn't whinge about having to do so?

They are quite happy to do so in Scandinavia at least. People understand that public services don’t pay for themselves.

Nice example would be the Finnish game company Rovio, ones who created Clash of Clans, they simply stated they were thankful for the education that got them that far , them and their employees, so they chose not to excersice any sort of tax planning but instead paid their taxes in full.

So yes, everybody doesn’t whine about taxes. Haven’t heard any of my friends do. If you have high taxation but low corruption things usually work out.