• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Musings from someone 'On the Fence'

Blue Man

Newbie
Dec 20, 2010
63
1
✟15,188.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
But this was a rose bush that exclusively flowered white roses. It has never produced red roses before, and has never done since.

Genes work like this:

Each parent has two genes for the same thing. For example, the color of your eye has two genes. One of those genes came from your mother, and one came from your father.

And genes come in three flavors: Dominate/dominate , Dominate/regressive , and regressive/regressive.

Everyone has one of these for teach gene, and we get variation because of the random selection process of mitosis (which is a dirty subject so I'll stay out of it).

If a parents have dominate genes of white: "W" and a regressive genes of red: "r".

Then the genes of both parents are "Wr". These are then put onto a matrix like so:

............................Parent 1
..........................W............r
Parent 2.....W....."WW"......."Wr"
.................r......"Wr".........."rr"

Only the "rr" would produce a rose bush with red petals. Because the white gene is the dominate, so in the event of "Wr" the petals are white. This is why two blonde haired people can produce a kid with red hair.

If this were the scenario, then the chances of it blooming white petals is 25%. Which sounds like your bush should bloom red 25% of the time, right? Well that's not exactly right. Double regressive genes are rare because not only are there these genes, but there are also different breads of bushes. So in order for it to bloom white, you need to cross pollinate it with the right breed and the right gene, and even then you might still come up amiss.

Here is an article on rose bushes changing colors:
How Does a Rose Bush Get Two Colors? | Garden Guides

And here is an article on genetics:
Understanding Genetics: Human Health and the Genome
 
Upvote 0

drich0150

Regular Member
Mar 16, 2008
6,407
437
Florida
✟59,834.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Why would faith be determined by geography or culture? I'm British, so my natural inclination is toward Christianity. But if I were Algerian, I would be naturally drawn toward Islam. Or if I were Bhutanese, I would likely be Buddhist. What is the value of faith if it is determined by where I was born?
True faith is not determined by where you were born. Only religious expression is. My mother was born a Buddhist my father is an atheist. Christianity was far from my birth right. I chose Christianity because i sought God, and not a religious expression. This is true for all who seek God and not just religion.

I understand that. It just seems as if this 'identification of sin' moulds the values of religious society. But secular society is changing, and homosexuality is becoming more accepted. I have been raised with this secular attitude, and I can't see myself ever agreeing that homosexuality is a sin. Recent discoveries have revealed that homosexuality is genetic. Sin is meant to be a choice that imperfect beings make, but if someone is born with that sort of sexual orientation ingrained in their DNA, how can the sin be their choice?
We are all born into sin, your argument suggests that you still equate your righteousness or the righteousness of a "Christian" on works or adherence to the law. This is demonstrated by your judgment of Homosexuality and it's status as a sin.

In truth, We all sin. We are all born into sin. why would the homosexual be any different? This is why Christ died on the cross, this is why we have Christianity. Because in Christianity we find redemption for sin, not a set of rules to live by in order that we may appear "sin free."
but actual forgiveness for our short comings so that we may establish and maintain a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit.

Isn't 'purging' what I feel I know just blind acceptance?
If what you "feel you know" is wrong? wouldn't it be foolish pride that has you holding on to your precepts? It appears that you have blindly accepted that all you have been taught is true.

It wouldn't be sincere, and it would be fighting what my intellectual side knows to be true.
How do you "know" these things to be true? I have shown you in several places where what you have represented to be as truth, to be inaccurate. If you still know them to be "true" then are you not simply relying on faith?

I am here because I feel something that keeps my mind open to the possibility of God, but I am struggling with keeping my mind open in spite of the empirical evidence that seems to condemn it as fiction. I don't know what help I need, but here I am.
It has been wisely suggested before that you simply seek what you need from God.
My mother had a white rose bush that never used to flower. When her father died, she went to Scotland to attend his funeral. When she returned, the white rose bush was completely covered in red roses - her father's favorite. Is that a miracle? I don't know. I might try to read my Bible again. Just a bit at a time.

God often times uses instances in our lives to speak to us when these things will mean little to nothing to anyone else. I am sure for your mother this is all she needed to verify her faith, but to anyone else these events could be explained away. God often works this way, as a way not to force belief among others, but to verify the belief of the believer. Many will say this is all coincidence. It may be if it happened one or two of us, but to all who need it? I believe it to be foolish to try and explain away billions of testimonies.

If you are serious about reading then may I suggest you start with luke11:5-13

we ask through prayer, we seek in the bible and in places like this, we knock by repeating this process till we get what our hearts want.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I've attended Church in the past, but I found that it was too advanced for where I feel I am. And when I've tried to approach Christians in the past

I think this is a perfect representation of why there are different types of Churches. You want something that stays pure to "the milk of the Word." A congregation (or at least individuals) that haven't lost sight of the importance of the BASICS. I bet there are people on CF who could guide to such a place in your area ...
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I was challenging the fundamental concept of condemning homosexuals, which is a constant theme in the Bible. That is not something that I agree with, or will ever agree with.

Christians are not to condemn homosexuals. That should help you!
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Isn't 'purging' what I feel I know just blind acceptance? It wouldn't be sincere, and it would be fighting what my intellectual side knows to be true.

Nope, it would be an intellectual wrestling with G-d, coming to realize He knows more. Confession of sin is agreing with G-d about specifics. You've read about Jacob wrestling with G-d? What did you get out of that?

I might try to read my Bible again. Just a bit at a time.

Good idea! I usually recommend starting at the Gospel of John, and going straight through the NT. Jacob's wrestling is in Genesis, chapter 32. Proverbs has 31 chapters, so a chapter a day is natural (read Chptr 21 today) and you're SURE to find at least something each day that applies. You can stick bookmarks in Psalms and your reading from the beginning of Genesis too, but I do think the first emphasis should be on the NT. 3 chapters a day, every day for a year, and you'll read the whole Bible.
 
Upvote 0

tomfst

Newbie
Dec 23, 2010
4
1
✟22,629.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Skiyk.


Questions are good because they lead to answers. Keep questioning and seeking.

Good thing about today is that there are TONS of sites that deal with some of the common questions you might have and the science and evidence behind it.

It is going to be up to you to find out all the information you can then make a decision. Unfortunately no one can do it for you.

Google bible+answers or answers+in+genesis or christian+answers for a start. I recommend a good study Bible that explains each verse and how it applies to the ancient world and the modern world. It really helps clear things up. I think there are some free ones online.

Even if you do not decide to become a Christian or follow Christ( or whatever the current term is) right now please understand that the door is always open.

Some "convert" overnight and some take quite a bit of time.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Sir Wilshire

Active Member
Jun 27, 2010
86
5
✟22,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Christianity has clearly drawn ideas and themes from Hinduism, such as sacrificing animals as reparations for sins
Really? Never heard this idea before. What's the evidence for it? And as far as I know, Native Americans were around way before Hinduism, and never exposed to it, yet they still practiced religious sacrifice. Seems to me that it is intuitive to humans that what whatever power is at hand requires atonement.

And there are some aspects about Christianity that seem unappealing, such as some of the Old Testament's, and even New Testament's, stances on women and homosexuality.

In terms of reason and logic, palatability of an idea has nothing to do with whether it's true or not. What's palatable to us is largely dependent on the culture we're raised in. So considering modern westerners are culturally weird compared to 99% of people that have ever lived, I wouldn't be using your "palatability detector" to make decisions on matters that could have eternal ramifications.

My question is, what pushed you to identify yourself as an Christian? I'm hoping that by asking this to a community of people who are obviously very certain about their beliefs, I might gather some interesting opinions.

Well my original reasons aren't so important as to what I have learned should be the reason one becomes a Christian. One should because it's true Jesus rose from the dead. And I think there's plenty of evidence for that.
 
Upvote 0

Harry3142

Regular Member
Apr 9, 2006
3,749
259
Ohio
✟27,729.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Skiyk-

Christianity is truly unique. Whereas all other religions teach that we must either follow certain rituals, obey certain laws, or conform to certain traditions in order to merit salvation, Christianity teaches that we are to accept God's own work that has already culminated in our salvation:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

The only righteousness which God accepts as truly salvific is his own righteousness. We Christians believe that as a direct result of his own work, completed through Jesus Christ, he is now willing to confer that righteousness on all who ask for it. That's the origin of the expression 'salvation by grace'. Our salvation is totally dependent on our accepting God's work, successfully accomplished, rather than its depending on our own attempt to earn salvation, which can never be successfully accomplished.
 
Upvote 0