Musings from someone 'On the Fence'

[Skiyk]

Hello,

Before I begin, I'll introduce myself. I'm 17 years old, and I'm from the United Kingdom. If I had to identify myself with a certain group, I suppose I would be a 'soft agnostic', where I simply don't know whether there is a God or not. My mother is identifies herself as a Christian because she 'feels it in her heart'. My father, on the other hand, is an Atheist. I'm on the fence.

I find myself questioning the holes in Christianity, and other Semitic religions (I'm not knowledgeable enough about the other religions to be critical), such as how apparently independent faiths can be so culturally linked. Christianity has clearly drawn ideas and themes from Hinduism, such as sacrificing animals as reparations for sins. And there are some aspects about Christianity that seem unappealing, such as some of the Old Testament's, and even New Testament's, stances on women and homosexuality. I find myself unable to reconcile some of those inconsistencies. That being said, I find that if I look past the disagreeable aspects of the Bible, there is a message of peace and hope that almost offsets the negativities. Does this attractive message make Christianity any more 'real', though? I don't know.

Intellectually, I find myself at a crossroads. Spiritually, I find myself in a similar position. When I poke fun at Christianity, I feel twang inside of me, a feeling of almost guilt. Has that been trained into me? Is it real? Once again, I don't know.

My question is, what pushed you to identify yourself as an Christian? I'm hoping that by asking this to a community of people who are obviously very certain about their beliefs, I might gather some interesting opinions.

Thanks

~ Skiyk

 

[razeontherock]

The real question of "what pushed each of us" gets long and personal, but it's almost never isolated from other people. So push away!

I find myself questioning the holes in Christianity

What holes? It promoted women's rights and all human rights when such thoughts were unthinkable. And yes, it holds each of us responsible to a Holy G-d, even in very private matters like our sexuality.

Christianity has clearly drawn ideas and themes from Hinduism, such as sacrificing animals as reparations for sins.

I think you're confused there, but instead of delving into details about Hinduism have you ever considered the possibility that the same G-d has influenced all of mankind throughout all of our history?

 

[Kalasin]

For starters, Christianity doesn't require animal sacrifice, because God has already sacrificed his Son in our place. Therefore, sacrifice is obsolete.

On the issue of women and homosexuality: there are feminist Christians (I'm a feminist Christian myself actually) and there are Christians who don't have an issue with homosexuality (I personally haven't made up my mind. I'm fairly apathetic about this particular issue and don't really care either way.)

Hope this helps

 

[razeontherock]

I think an overlooked question to clarify a Christian stance on homosexuality is: "what homosexuals would Jesus bash?"

YouTube - Casting Crowns - If We Are The Body

 

[OldWiseGuy]

True Christians are 'called' to be so by God himself. If after being called we are then 'chosen' God begins shaping our lives into what He wants us to be. He leads us to 'believe the unbelievable' (if we cannot believe the Flood, how could we possibly believe in the resurrection, or eternal life?) That's tough in this age of science. Good luck to you.

 

[Skiyk]

Those were just a few examples that I listed. I'm not looking to have all of my concerns systematically debunked, because there are so many aspects of Christianity that I have trouble believing. That being said, I'm sorry if I offended some of you. My intention wasn't to criticise your religion. I'm really just trying to see past my intellectual barriers, and try to embrace what I feel spiritually. I'm very questioning in nature, but I'd like to remain open-minded about God.

I've attended Church in the past, but I found that it was too advanced for where I feel I am. And when I've tried to approach Christians in the past, I've often been greeted with an almost militant spewing of rhetoric. Often, Atheists are very similar. I'd just like to find someone who understands and will answer my questions, not try to debunk my myriad concerns.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Have you tried praying to God to answer your questions? You might be surprised at the outcome of such prayer!

 

[Skiyk]

I don't feel I'm ready for that yet. I couldn't pray with sincerity or a completely open mind at this point in my life.

I mean, I'm looking for faith, but not necessarily religion. On top of there being aspects of Christianity that I find hard to believe, there are aspects that I simply don't agree with, such as its stance on homosexuality. My mind is open to the possibility of God, but I don't want to have additional beliefs thrust upon me. I think that is the difference between religion and faith. Faith is the belief in God, but religion includes all of the additional practices and beliefs that surround him. I am contemplating the most fundamental belief in a God at this point in my life.

 

[drich0150]

Christianity has clearly drawn ideas and themes from Hinduism, such as sacrificing animals as reparations for sins.

You are thinking of Old Testament Judaism, There are absolutely no animal sacrifices in Christianity.

And there are some aspects about Christianity that seem unappealing, such as some of the Old Testament's, and even New Testament's, stances on women and homosexuality.

If you are looking to the law to find righteousness then again you are not speaking of Christianity. We use the law to identify sin not as a means to obtain "rightness" before the Lord.

I find myself unable to reconcile some of those inconsistencies. That being said, I find that if I look past the disagreeable aspects of the Bible, there is a message of peace and hope that almost offsets the negativities. Does this attractive message make Christianity any more 'real', though? I don't know.

Perhaps more exploration is warranted. as I have demonstrated there are inconsistencies in your "theology" and understanding purpose of scripture. I would suggest the inconsistencies you have found, are due to these discrepancies rather than flaws found in the bible.

Intellectually, I find myself at a crossroads. Spiritually, I find myself in a similar position. When I poke fun at Christianity, I feel twang inside of me, a feeling of almost guilt. Has that been trained into me? Is it real? Once again, I don't know.

Perhaps you should find out before you simply dismiss these feelings to "programming."

My question is, what pushed you to identify yourself as an Christian?

I had a hole in my life that only Christ could fill. I sought contentment through many different avenues, but have only found it here.

 

[Skiyk]

You are thinking of Old Testament Judaism, There are absolutely no animal sacrifices in Christianity.

I am well aware that animal sacrifices are exlusively in the Old Testament, but my point remains that the relationship between Christanity and Hinduism is present, illustrating the cultural and geographic ties that seem ever present in religion. I don't see how an omniscient faith could be so directly ties to the human culture and geography.

If you are looking to the law to find righteousness then again you are not speaking of Christianity. We use the law to identify sin not as a means to obtain "rightness" before the Lord.

I wasn't questioning whether Christianity's stance of homosexuality is a law or a means to identify sin. I was challenging the fundamental concept of condemning homosexuals, which is a constant theme in the Bible. That is not something that I agree with, or will ever agree with.

If you read on in the thread, I have discussed my reason for being here in greater detail. I'm not looking to have all of my concerns systematically debunked. I am looking for faith, and I am looking for help.

 

[drich0150]

I am well aware that animal sacrifices are exclusively in the Old Testament, but my point remains that the relationship between Christianity and Hinduism is present, illustrating the cultural and geographic ties that seem ever present in religion. I don't see how an omniscient faith could be so directly ties to the human culture and geography.

Why not?

I wasn't questioning whether Christianity's stance of homosexuality is a law or a means to identify sin. I was challenging the fundamental concept of condemning homosexuals, which is a constant theme in the Bible. That is not something that I agree with, or will ever agree with.

The point I was making was the bible does not specifically condemn Homosexuality nor womanhood. The bible more over the Law is used to identify sin in our lives. To also establish that Sin and God can not coexist. Scripture also tells of a way for our sin redemption. The bible no more point to homosexuality as a sin than it does any other sin. those who do, do not do so in accordance with scripture.

If you read on in the thread, I have discussed my reason for being here in greater detail. I'm not looking to have all of my concerns systematically debunked. I am looking for faith, and I am looking for help.

According to scripture Faith can only be established by the hearing of God's word. You will not be able to establish true faith unless you purge yourself of what you "feel" you already know.

Perhaps it would be better for all of us if you simply tell us what type of Help you are specifically looking for since scriptural help is not a priority. The problem seems to be you wish to remain just "spiritual" or spiritually neutral, without delving into or committing to anything. the problem is God does not work that way. So again maybe you could specifically point to what you are looking for so we can help.

 

[Blue Man]

I don't feel I'm ready for that yet. I couldn't pray with sincerity or a completely open mind at this point in my life.

I mean, I'm looking for faith, but not necessarily religion. On top of there being aspects of Christianity that I find hard to believe, there are aspects that I simply don't agree with, such as its stance on homosexuality. My mind is open to the possibility of God, but I don't want to have additional beliefs thrust upon me. I think that is the difference between religion and faith. Faith is the belief in God, but religion includes all of the additional practices and beliefs that surround him. I am contemplating the most fundamental belief in a God at this point in my life.

What you need to do is ask questions and find answers on your own. If you ask people they're going to find their prescribed answer; garbage in, garbage out, but if you do your own research (the bible or otherwise) to answer your own questions, you wont be as confused.

 

[drich0150]

What you need to do is ask questions and find answers on your own. If you ask people they're going to find their prescribed answer; garbage in, garbage out, but if you do your own research (the bible or otherwise) to answer your own questions, you wont be as confused.

Why not? why even bother with school? Garbage in garbage out correct? why not just "feel out" education too? because nobody can tell you what is right for you!

 

[Blue Man]

Why not? why even bother with school? Garbage in garbage out correct? why not just "feel out" education too? because nobody can tell you what is right for you!

A lot of people would agree with that. Some of the wealthiest men were self education, and the wisest men follow their own direction. In fact, one of the best things I've learned from education is to be skeptical of it.

 

[drich0150]

A lot of people would agree with that. Some of the wealthiest men were self education, and the wisest men follow their own direction. In fact, one of the best things I've learned from education is to be skeptical of it.

If all life was, was a matter of philosophy, and nothing real or of any consequence was ever going to take place I would agree. But as it is few would survive if we were educated by simply feeling our way through life. Look at most of the 3rd world countries in Africa. are the bulk of their uneducated running fortune 500 companies? or are entire populations suffering from ignorance and unchecked aggression? Even closer to home how many untrained or uneducated electricians do you think there are? firemen? police officers? soldiers? If these jobs are considered life and death and we demand that those in those Jobs be educated, then why would it be OK to let someone "feel" their way through something that has an eternal consequence?

 

[Blue Man]

If all life was, was a matter of philosophy, and nothing real or of any consequence was ever going to take place I would agree. But as it is few would survive if we were educated by simply feeling our way through life. Look at most of the 3rd world countries in Africa. are the bulk of their uneducated running fortune 500 companies? or are entire populations suffering from ignorance and unchecked aggression? Even closer to home how many untrained or uneducated electricians do you think there are? firemen? police officers? soldiers? If these jobs are considered life and death and we demand that those in those Jobs be educated, then why would it be OK to let someone "feel" their way through something that has an eternal consequence?

That's very true. Education is very important.

 

[andreha]

Hello,

Before I begin, I'll introduce myself. I'm 17 years old, and I'm from the United Kingdom. If I had to identify myself with a certain group, I suppose I would be a 'soft agnostic', where I simply don't know whether there is a God or not. My mother is identifies herself as a Christian because she 'feels it in her heart'. My father, on the other hand, is an Atheist. I'm on the fence.

I find myself questioning the holes in Christianity, and other Semitic religions (I'm not knowledgeable enough about the other religions to be critical), such as how apparently independent faiths can be so culturally linked. Christianity has clearly drawn ideas and themes from Hinduism, such as sacrificing animals as reparations for sins. And there are some aspects about Christianity that seem unappealing, such as some of the Old Testament's, and even New Testament's, stances on women and homosexuality. I find myself unable to reconcile some of those inconsistencies. That being said, I find that if I look past the disagreeable aspects of the Bible, there is a message of peace and hope that almost offsets the negativities. Does this attractive message make Christianity any more 'real', though? I don't know.

Intellectually, I find myself at a crossroads. Spiritually, I find myself in a similar position. When I poke fun at Christianity, I feel twang inside of me, a feeling of almost guilt. Has that been trained into me? Is it real? Once again, I don't know.

My question is, what pushed you to identify yourself as an Christian? I'm hoping that by asking this to a community of people who are obviously very certain about their beliefs, I might gather some interesting opinions.

Thanks

~ Skiyk

Hi Skiyk

Your mother is right - Christianity is the real deal. I have experienced God's power and influence so many times during my life. It's impossible for me not to believe. Those twangs you feel is not something that has been trained into you at all. That is the Holy Spirit that is gently tugging at the strings of your heart to turn to God. Don't resist that - go with it. Ask Him to lead you in truth, humbly and sincerely - and He will do just that. He loves you with a mighty passion. He will not hurt you. He is pure love.

 

[Skiyk]

Why not?

Why would faith be determined by geography or culture? I'm British, so my natural inclination is toward Christianity. But if I were Algerian, I would be naturally drawn toward Islam. Or if I were Bhutanese, I would likely be Buddhist. What is the value of faith if it is determined by where I was born?

The point I was making was the bible does not specifically condemn Homosexuality nor womanhood. The bible more over the Law is used to identify sin in our lives. To also establish that Sin and God can not coexist. Scripture also tells of a way for our sin redemption. The bible no more point to homosexuality as a sin than it does any other sin. those who do, do not do so in accordance with scripture.

I understand that. It just seems as if this 'identification of sin' moulds the values of religious society. But secular society is changing, and homosexuality is becoming more accepted. I have been raised with this secular attitude, and I can't see myself ever agreeing that homosexuality is a sin. Recent discoveries have revealed that homosexuality is genetic. Sin is meant to be a choice that imperfect beings make, but if someone is born with that sort of sexual orientation engrained in their DNA, how can the sin be their choice?

According to scripture Faith can only be established by the hearing of God's word. You will not be able to establish true faith unless you purge yourself of what you "feel" you already know.

Perhaps it would be better for all of us if you simply tell us what type of Help you are specifically looking for since scriptural help is not a priority. The problem seems to be you wish to remain just "spiritual" or spiritually neutral, without delving into or committing to anything. the problem is God does not work that way. So again maybe you could specifically point to what you are looking for so we can help.

Isn't 'purging' what I feel I know just blind acceptance? It wouldn't be sincere, and it would be fighting what my intellectual side knows to be true. I am here because I feel something that keeps my mind open to the possibility of God, but I am struggling with keeping my mind open in spite of the empirical evidence that seems to condemn it as fiction. I don't know what help I need, but here I am.

Your mother is right - Christianity is the real deal. I have experienced God's power and influence so many times during my life. It's impossible for me not to believe. Those twangs you feel is not something that has been trained into you at all. That is the Holy Spirit that is gently tugging at the strings of your heart to turn to God. Don't resist that - go with it. Ask Him to lead you in truth, humbly and sincerely - and He will do just that. He loves you with a mighty passion. He will not hurt you. He is pure love.

My mother had a white rose bush that never used to flower. When her father died, she went to Scotland to attend his funeral. When she returned, the white rose bush was completely covered in red roses - her father's favourite. Is that a miracle? I don't know. I might try to read my Bible again. Just a bit at a time.

 

[Blue Man]

My mother had a white rose bush that never used to flower. When her father died, she went to Scotland to attend his funeral. When she returned, the white rose bush was completely covered in red roses - her father's favourite. Is that a miracle? I don't know. I might try to read my Bible again. Just a bit at a time.

Roses are just like humans when it comes to genes. If both parents have the non-dominate red gene that gets passed on to the flower, then it's going to turn red.

 

[Skiyk]

But this was a rose bush that exclusively flowered white roses. It has never produced red roses before, and has never done since.