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Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.

DennisTate

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Attempts to find sub-atomic physics in the pages of the Bible make me cringe.
If you will do a search for the name Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman you might find that Wave Theory helps to explain how the universe works.
 
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Radrook

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...I think a better explanation would be that the author was prone to ASC (Altered States of Consciousness) or that s/he was using symbolic language.


Unfortunately, that altered-state explanation can be understood as dovetailing nicely with a casting of doubt on the Bible's authenticity as inspired by God via holy spirit:


2 Peter 1:21
New International Version
For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Extreme caution must be taken when the Holy Spirit is involved:

Matthew 12:31
New International Version
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
[/QUOTE]

BTW
It is not uncommon for unbelievers to suggest that both Ezekiel and the Apostle John were under the influence of some type of mind-altering drugs when they had their visions.
 
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DennisTate

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Unfortunately, that altered-state explanation can be understood as dovetailing nicely with a casting of doubt on the Bible's authenticity as inspired by God via holy spirit:





Extreme caution must be taken when the Holy Spirit is involved:
BTW
It is not uncommon for unbelievers to suggest that both Ezekiel and the Apostle John were under the influence of some type of mind-altering drugs when they had their visions.



Near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley saw a fulfillment of
the Mark of the Beast during his brush with death that fits well with both
Multiverse Theory...... as well as with the Book of Revelation.

He was shown a time line for this though that fits with Multiverse Theory.....
because it seems that in our time line many of the disasters have been delayed and delayed and delayed.......
which fits with the desire that G-d has that all men be saved........
and the promise that Messiah Yeshua will draw all men to Himself.

John 12:32

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.



 
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Radrook

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The visions that John and Ezekiel are described as inspired by holy spirit and not due to mere altered states of consciousness.
 
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DennisTate

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The visions that John and Ezekiel are described as inspired by holy spirit and not due to mere altered states of consciousness.

I agree....... but the fact that some near death experiencers report being shown many similar things should perhaps give us Christians reason to study these things further.
 
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DennisTate

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Matthew 11:20 - 24
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:


Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

"But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."

.........
Could it be that in non-linear time Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will do works in Sodom and Gomorrah that will result in a greater revival in those cities than in Capernaum?
 
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DennisTate

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I don't think the physicist touched on the subject of prophecy.

Probably not.... but I know of a prophet who to my thinking.......
is getting into subjects that relate to Theoretical Physics.......(I think)?????!


 
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DennisTate

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Dennis, unless i missed it, who is "Q"?

A character on the Star Trek series......
who can walk through walls and meet with Captain Kirk, Spok and the crew
much as Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appeared to the disciples after his resurrection..... even when the doors were locked.
 
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DennisTate

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Here is an interesting angle on Ezekiel 37:

Ken Rank



 
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An online friend of mine posted an explanation in the language of high level theoretical physics...
The quote is correctly called word salad. In this case words from nuclear physics mashed together in a fairly incomprehensible text. Cranks also tend to use inappropriate capitalization as in that quote. Massive overuse (and maybe ignorance of) ellipsis

The author is ignorant about science since there are no actual multiverses in his text. There is gibberish about a black dog.

The author is at least misleading about Ezekiel 37, which is

Conclusion: A probably ignorant person somewhere on the internet.

ETA: He does get some basics right, e.g. how quarks make up protons, neutrons and mesons.

ETA: Also "the language of high level theoretical physics" is called mathematics together with coherent English descriptions.
 
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Kaon

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Your friend is talking about quantum chromodynamics - it is something I am familiar with, but that isn't my specialty.

However, I am familiar with scalar fields, and the probability of observing elementary particles such as quarks and neutrinos. Generally, every single one of the particles that exists can, and do exist anywhere in space at any given instant. The spiel is that one must make observations to "ground" a particle, or collection of particles (mass/energy). That includes spacial dimensions.

His explanation of the dynamics of the elementary particles, and the comparison to multiverse theory may be better received if we replace "multiverse" with "multi/inter"dimensional. Then, we can begin to address the issues in QM - like bilocation, remote fields/non-locality, and scalar vacuum energies of elementary particles. We observe inter-dimensional action of particles, but usually call it something else.

I think I am missing how this connects to Ezekiel 37, though.
 
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DennisTate

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Thank you for this excellent reply...........
The connection to Ezekiel 37 happens when we combine this basic idea with information from near death experience accounts.... that could be about other time lines..... that may have already occurred.

If.... what near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley was shown that sounds like another time line..... then the implication is that you and I....... .have gone through an Ezekiel 37 event...... we have been resurrected..... into a new time line..... in which we can delay, and delay and delay and delay...... the fulfillment of the mark of the beast that occurred well before 2018.... in that other time line.


Jeremiah 23:20

"The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly."

If I am correct that this theory implies at least one full fledged fulfillment of Ezekiel 37..... .then we can know that G-d loves us immensely and gets us to do it again.... and perhaps again.... and perhaps again.... until we get it right.... and turn to G-d with our whole hearts....... and love our neighbours as ourselves.
 
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DennisTate

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To you as an Atheist....
you would tend to take it that way... but as you run into more and more evidence for non-linear time......... think about the probable implications!

Non-linear time implies a Creator so powerful that they can recreate all of us...... without even making it clear to us that we have been resurrected...... and given another chance to live out our lives......... and grow into the mind set that we can make it into heaven...... For the record near death experiencer Bob Jones was shown that only two percent of us can go into heaven immediately after death so all of us..... both Atheists and Christians.... we have a lot to learn.

Near death experiencer Mellen Benedict who was an Atheist at the time of his NDE reports going right up to the Being of Light of NDE fame and asking question after question after question...... and all of his questions were answered brilliantly......... Mellen Benedict though an Atheist...... assumed that the brilliant light he saw as his consciousness left his body..... .surely must be as nice as some of his professors and teachers.... So Atheist Mellen Benedict asked him questions.... . whereas on the other hand.... many Christians see the being of light...... feel guilt and shame.... and try to hide.


Ezekiel 37:1 (KJV)

Eze 37:1


The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

.......

Eze 37:10

So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
 
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DennisTate

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In all fairness, the pages are made of sub-atomic particles, held together by sub-atomic forces.

Indeed...... and the explanation for a Theistic version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe....... that is somewhat similar to chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe.....
that was given to Atheist Mellen Benedict......
can play a huge role in the transformation of Theoretical Physics.


Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

 
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Mellen-Thomas Benedict's NDE a skeptical look
A small problem is that he had this experience in 1982 and has been making a living from selling merchandise based on it ever since. That includes what looks like quack light machines. Light therapy is valid medicine when backed by evidence.

A major problem is that he is deluded, e.g. claims to see 400 years into the future. Read his web site (I will not support it with a link but it is easy to find).

There are doubts about him having cancer at all. No documents exist. No statements from his doctors. PMH Atwater claimed to have seen his x-rays which were then "conveniently" lost. She is not a doctor.

A probable delusion of being given the crank Cleve Backster's name during his NDE. Benedict states that he was well read (a "self described "information freak"") and that Backster was active during the late 1960's - before 1982.

The "experts" he cites do not have any evidence about his (we have to put supposed!) NDE. They are Kenneth Ring and Atwater - NDE advocates who are obviously biased - and Lee Pulos (a psychologist).
 
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Kaon

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I see. I am very, very careful to call these "rooms" timelines, because I do believe there is one universe with one unique stream. However, what you describe is what I would call inter-dimensional.

"In my Father's house there are many rooms... I go and prepare one for you."

These "rooms" are, in my mathematical and philosophical opinion, dimensions. If you think of a glass jar with marbles, each marble is a dimension that has its own observable characteristics and patterns. The math is the same (since it is sacred to the Most High,) but the application of that math (physics) depends on perception. Since we would all be perfected, we would know how to perfectly apply our operations.

I say all that to hit your point about time - to which I would like to point out is completely arbitrary on this plane of existence. It is derived from an arbitrary frequency related to hyperfine transitions in relatively stable heavy atoms. The idea of time is likely just for our convenience - so that we can experience a sequence of events and understand perspective.

Time may also be a psychological consequence of being dead, which is why NDEs - whether the person went to hell or heaven - don't experience time, as it were.
 
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I say all that to hit your point about time - to which I would like to point out is completely arbitrary on this plane of existence. It is derived from an arbitrary frequency related to hyperfine transitions in relatively stable heavy atoms.
I think you are talking about timekeeping as in atomic clocks, not time itself. Time is not arbitrary in science. It is a fundamental part of spacetime.

The main mistake DennisTate is making is not learning about the multi-universe concept enough to make correct statements about it. For example the QCD connection is the many-worlds interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics. That is one of many equally valid interpretations. A fundamental multi-universe property is that travel between the universes is impossible. A fundamental property of MWI is that an observer is always changing "rooms".
 
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