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multi-denominational question

Cactus Jack

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Basically, if someone has a degree from an unaccredited institution, then there's no guarantee that they received the proper training, education, and experience needed to properly practice their vocation.
True. I find it hilarious that his is no better than mine. Two different degrees, two different sets of work. I never told him mine was better than his.

The issue comes when people falsely represent themselves as being something that they aren't... in other words, when they lie about their skills and education.
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Now compare this to the doof who starts waving around a piece of paper that they got simply by paying a couple of thousand dollars and writing a few essays. :mad:
-snip-
We went through Hell on Earth in order to establish that we're qualified to engage in the vocation and discuss the subject matter that we trained for. These people probably knocked it all out in a weekend between episodes of "Keeping Up With The Kardashians."

Yeah.

That's why folks who got their degrees the old-fashioned way tend to not be happy with folks who got their degrees from diploma mills.
I can understand that. I really can. I can also understand that your MBA is a bit different that a MS in geophysics, as well. You think your MBA is hard to get, I’m sure the fella with a MS in geophysics thinks his is as well.

That pastor earned his in whatever way his school wanted. And I did mine as well. I never questioned his degree’s validity. Nor did I ever ask for any position with his church, in fact I made it clear that I did NOT want a position.

Have you asked that pastor why that pastor is offended by the ordination from your school? In order to answer your question, I think we need to know more. Your school might have beliefs which that pastor finds to be un-Biblical.
Good point. Must make sure all of my schooling meets his expectations if I decide to go to his church. Not.

You might have a plausible argument, IF I wanted a role in his church other than a member of his congregation.

Also, since I do not know you, I need to consider it possible that the other pastor is not offended but is very concerned about what you believe and cares about you. But if you are in denial, you could suppose he is offended. So, I think we need for that pastor to speak for one's own self, about this.
Last time I talked with him, he wouldn’t discuss it. And that was the last time I went to his church. I was to the point of regretting going to church. More than him, but the people there. But no matter, because I wasn’t going to church for them, though the environment was not what I wanted to tolerate. His church is not the only one on Earth.

Again, it depends on what doctrinal difference you are talking about. Also, there are the "therefores" > because of what you believe, "therefore" what do you do and think? If for only one example, you do not eat pork, therefore do you feel your belief in Jesus is superior to the belief of someone who does eat pork? If your therefore has some superiority attitude or teaching, about only a practice outward of eating pork or not . . . this could be taken to be some form of "legalism", in which people can measure themselves by certain outward religious activities they prize and use to compare themselves with other people.
Ok. I made the mistake of mentioning that, so let me explain that a bit further....
I am invited to a church breakfast, and once there I ask if there is anything other than bacon for meat...they say no & ask why...I tell them I don’t eat pork...they ask why asking specifically if it’s health reasons...I say no that it’s religious...and they go bonkers telling me about the “Mosaic law”...I tell them “don’t worry about it, I don’t want any bacon”...only to find out they cook everything in bacon grease...which the thought nauseates me...so I politely turn down the breakfast...they get upset preaching about how “after the flood all is good to eat”.

I have gotten into some intense arguments over it. Hey, if I don’t want to eat pork because I believe it’s gonna make the sky turn green, that’s MY call. My mouth eats it. My stomach digests it. Who cares? Maybe it’s gonna make trees talk and dogs walk backwards! Who cares? I never expect anyone else to eat to my standards. I have had people over for dinner before and they didn’t like what I had fixed. You know what I did? Shrugged my shoulders and apologized. “Sorry! It’s what I fixed. If I knew earlier I could have fixed something else.” No harm, no foul.

Well, if you suppose that not eating pig meat is a way of getting extra points for showing Jesus how much you believe in Him . . . I think we show Jesus how much we believe in Him, much moreso by how we love any and all people . . . following His example of how He has loved us
Maybe it’s more points. Maybe it’s because I just choose to. Dude, I can call it whatever I want. You don’t seem to get that. NO ONE seems to.

And, "therefore", a dietary gesture would be very minor by comparison with the sacrifices I make, of forgiving and of being sacrificed to doing only what our Father has us doing in His peace
com7fy8, I promise you, the next time I go to a church breakfast I vow I will eat every scrap and morsel of dead pig so they, and you, can feel safe with the idea that what I consume somehow makes me a better whatever for everyone else to marvel at for whatever reason. It's really nothing to get wrapped up over. I just don't eat it. I can give any reason in the world. No one is going to die because I don't eat it.

I offer that I "get" Romans 14 > which means that eating meat from a dead pig is fine with Jesus; and if I do not get extra points by trusting Jesus by eating pork, then surely you also do not get extra points by not eating pork . . . since Paul clearly says . . . in Romans 14 . . . how it does not make any difference, either way. But in case you are feeling like somehow what you are doing is better . . . when Paul says either way can be "unto the Lord", then it could be your superiority stance which is attracting the criticism and attacks; possibly you are not being attacked because of merely what is going into your mouth . . . but because of how you are coming out about it.
I rarely discuss why I don’t eat pork. I just say “religious reasons”.

Why would so many people even know about you not eating meat from a dead pig? I mean, if our Apostle Paul means for us to be humble about what we eat and not to look down on those who eat differently than we do, then why would we make a show of letting people know what we eat? Why would any of us be calling a lot of attention to what we eat, if Colossians 3:2 says to keep our minds on things above? Why would we make some project of calling attention "elsewhere", if God is trusting us to pastor people's attention to "things above", not to "things on the earth"? If you were humbling how you don't eat pork, how ever would a lot of people know so they could be criticizing and attacking you? I am sure that in the Bible there are much more important things for our attention . . . and as pastors we need to shepherd people's attention to what is most important.
Is there a reason why my choice to not eat pork bothers you so much?
 
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com7fy8

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Last time I talked with him, he wouldn’t discuss it. And that was the last time I went to his church. I was to the point of regretting going to church. More than him, but the people there. But no matter, because I wasn’t going to church for them, though the environment was not what I wanted to tolerate. His church is not the only one on Earth.
Well, if someone doesn't want to talk with me about something, I now understand that Jesus wants me to be humble and not try to control the person to answer to me > but be >

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19)

Jesus does not give up on me; so I understand He does not want me to give up on anyone :)

Therefore, we need to feed on "longsuffering" ! >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

Jesus had disciples who were not right, but He did not give up on them.

Ok. I made the mistake of mentioning that, so let me explain that a bit further....
I am invited to a church breakfast, and once there I ask if there is anything other than bacon for meat...they say no & ask why...I tell them I don’t eat pork...they ask why asking specifically if it’s health reasons...I say no that it’s religious...and they go bonkers telling me about the “Mosaic law”...I tell them “don’t worry about it, I don’t want any bacon”...only to find out they cook everything in bacon grease...which the thought nauseates me...so I politely turn down the breakfast...they get upset preaching about how “after the flood all is good to eat”.
Well, that explains how a large number of people you don't know well could find out that you don't eat pork. I did not think of that :) That certainly is "efficient".

I have gotten into some intense arguments over it.
"longsuffering" . . . good example . . . if we are with wrong people, Jesus can have us with them in order to reach them with our good example of how to love.

Is there a reason why my choice to not eat pork bothers you so much?
To my knowledge, in my comments to give you feedback, I do not think I have said that it bothers me that you do not eat pork. You have brought these things up in this forum, and I understood you wanted feedback. So, I did not intend to speak against you not eating pork, but I was curious why you don't and if you are promoting it or not. And you have answered those "questions" I had in mind, I would say; so . . . thank you :)

In my case, if I were at a dinner or a house where they were eating or drinking something I do not believe in eating or drinking, I would simply let them know and please excuse me. If they ask why, I would tell them. If they wanted to argue, I don't have to argue back; but if I did, I understand God would want me to be gentle and humble and prayerful about the best things to say which could help them >

"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)
 
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Cactus Jack

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Well, if someone doesn't want to talk with me about something, I now understand that Jesus wants me to be humble and not try to control the person to answer to me > but be >

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19)
Hmmm. Ok. I figure if he doesn’t want to talk about it, then so be it. I won’t argue, though I also have no feedback to change my perceptions on the matter.

Jesus does not give up on me; so I understand He does not want me to give up on anyone :)

Therefore, we need to feed on "longsuffering" ! >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
I think longsuffering is the word I wanted to remember that describes my thoughts on this. Because I love seafood. Oh man...crab, lobster, clam, oyster...YUM! But, just like with porrk, the Book of Leviticus speaks against them. And, like pork, I love them a lot. So to me it’s “extra credit” that I am doing without what I enjoy immensely to show respect for him. Could I do better elsewhere? I’m sure I could. No one is perfect, not even me. But every little bit goes a long ways, I feel.

I could try to compare it to the Amish and their style of cress, but I’m not sure if that would be a good comparison or not.

Well, that explains how a large number of people you don't know well could find out that you don't eat pork. I did not think of that :) That certainly is "efficient".
I just don’t get it. So many people literally are offended that I use religion for my reason to avoid eating pork. Yeah, I slip on occasion. But I repent. I ask for forgiveness. I recognize that I am far from perfect, and I even apologize (to Jesus). It’s my way of believing.

At the same time, if I am at someone’s home and that is all they have, I remember what (was it Peter?) asked about a similar situation, where in Jesus said it’s not what goes in you that makes you good or bad (or something like that). If I am at your home and you invite me for dinner, cool. If all you have is salad and pork chops, I might eat the salad. Or I might eat the pork chops. Doing so voluntarily is one thing. However, if you tell me I will eat the pork chops...that’s a different story. And that causes problems for others as well.

Let’s compare it to sex. I do. If you hit up on me and say “let’s do it”, I can say yes or no. If I say yes, that is clearly my choice. If I say no, again my choice, however, if you say “you will anyway” and force me to, that is...rape. Right? Right. Forcing one to sin is one of the worst sins I can imagine. It is one thing to sin, myself. But to force one to sin? I see no justification for it.

So when I compare it to sex, I see it as a literal comparison. I can choose to have sex, or you can force me. I can choose to eat pork, or you can force me.

That has been an issue before as there have been a few times I was in no position to refuse to eat pork. Ok, I was in jail. First time the cops thought it was funny. Until the jailer that refused my dietary restriction was fired. Second time, I could have done something, but I also knew that there were extenuating circumstances that left the jail no option. Long story, but the sheriff did apologize, and I forgave him.

"longsuffering" . . . good example . . . if we are with wrong people, Jesus can have us with them in order to reach them with our good example of how to love.
Good point.

To my knowledge, in my comments to give you feedback, I do not think I have said that it bothers me that you do not eat pork. You have brought these things up in this forum, and I understood you wanted feedback. So, I did not intend to speak against you not eating pork, but I was curious why you don't and if you are promoting it or not. And you have answered those "questions" I had in mind, I would say; so . . . thank you :)
I don’t promote it, I just don’t. I go to restaurant and order a meal, let’s say chicken fried steak & eggs with cream gravy, pork sausage comes in the gravy. No biggie. Sometimes the sausage is not a pork sausage. THAT I keep in mind. I don’t push it. Just no bacon. And I offer instruction on cooking with turkey bacon. But many restaurants don’t accept that (which I think is stupid).
On a side note- people fail to understand how much healthier it is to have turkey bacon over pork bacon, and it is so easy to keep turkey bacon without it going bad. Anyhow....

In my case, if I were at a dinner or a house where they were eating or drinking something I do not believe in eating or drinking, I would simply let them know and please excuse me. If they ask why, I would tell them. If they wanted to argue, I don't have to argue back; but if I did, I understand God would want me to be gentle and humble and prayerful about the best things to say which could help them >

"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)
It’s not like I wear a billboard around my neck saying it. I think that you handle it close to the same way I do. Generally speaking.

BTW, lately I am under a lot of stress from college and other stuff, so I get a bit short-fused. Sorry if I do.
 
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com7fy8

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BTW, lately I am under a lot of stress from college and other stuff, so I get a bit short-fused. Sorry if I do.
Well, it is good to know we are not perfect :) And we can trust God to correct and mature us in His love and how we are and relate.

It looks like you have discovered how much can be involved in making one dietary commitment . . . about just one item. Now, I can see it could go in a good way, of strengthening yourself in keeping a commitment to the LORD. Also, it could be not good, by becoming a preoccupation and distraction about something which is of this life.

I guess, in keeping your commitment, you can detect how wrong things might try to come in you and mess with you in order to break you from it. So, you can learn to be strong against anything wrong which would oppose you. Also, you might find ways you benefit, however this might be. And . . . you can find how there are wrong ways to push yourself to keep a commitment, but also the right way. There can be guilt-tripping, but also there can be positive and encouraging thoughts and helpful ways of keeping the commitment . . . if it is what God does want. So, if it is of God, it should be edifying, or you need to find out how to make it edifying. Or possibly it is not really of God. But I think it can be :)

So - - then . . . Cactus . . . we have been into how it has been not so good, perhaps. How has it benefited you and others?

But what you say about it not being ok for someone to "make" you eat pork > this is maybe like how I have handled things with someone who, I find, has a drinking problem; I outrightly say no thanks to beer and I take water or something soft or I just say I would like to talk and not have anything; and I expect to be respected and he has been reasonable, not threatening to accuse me of refusing his hospitality. But I handle that as a personal thing, between him and me; I do not make it religious, but simply that I am satisfied and I appreciate the water or I appreciate just being with him and his lady friend.
 
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com7fy8

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How has it benefited you and others?
I don't really care how my dietary restriction affects others. Or am I reading your inquiry wrong?
Well, whether I meant that or not, you have answered that question :)
So, if it is of God, it should be edifying, or you need to find out how to make it edifying.
"Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another." (Romans 14:19)

I notice, by the way, that this, also, is in Romans chapter 14. So, God does want us to care about how we effect each other who are His people. Of course, there are contrary people who can be negative about anything at all which we do. But the really Christian people will benefit from whatsoever God has us doing.

"And there are 'inclusive' people who will say yay to whatever you do, because they don't want standards."

"Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing." (1 Thessalonians 5:11)

Now, "of course", there are things which God might have us doing in private; but if we are obeying Him in His peace, our example in the sight of God will spread > including how we feed on 1 Peter 3:4 >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

How we are in ourselves has a lot to do with if we are obeying God or not. And Abraham obeyed God, and the LORD said to him >

"'In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.'" (Genesis 22:18)

So, Abraham's behavior, even in the more or less private situation on that mountain, has effected other people > "all the nations of the earth shall be blessed," God Himself guarantees. So, God Himself cares about how our behavior will effect others.

But there are various groups and individuals who can create things which will attract attack and tempt people into arguing . . . because they are deeply combative and contentious people who want to have fights and be excused to criticize and look down on others. We see, in this forum how some number of people are here to play "word chess". If they write something they know can draw Christians or others into a major discussion, bingo! They have a game of word chess :)

But I understand that there are others reading; so I do not just fight with people and call them names, etc.; but I pray for how to write what can be helpful to someone who is capable of benefiting from what I offer. But God knows who is really who, including me.
 
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