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Muhammad's statement on the tailbone

TG123

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Salaam Alaikum. When talking about the Resurrection of human beings to be judged by God, Muhammad stated that when we die, our whole body will decay, except for one bone. He claimed that the tailbone (or the bone at the end of it) will remain, everything else will be decayed by the earth. This statement is quoted in several authentic hadiths, from Bukhari and Muslim.

(1) Narrated Al--Amash: Abu Huraira said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Between the two sounds of the trumpet, there will be forty." Somebody asked Abu Huraira, "Forty days?" But he refused to reply. Then he asked, "Forty months?" He refused to reply. Then he asked, "Forty years?" Again, he refused to reply. Abu Huraira added. "Then (after this period) Allah will send water from the sky and then the dead bodies will grow like vegetation grows, There is nothing of the human body that does not decay except one bone; that is the little bone at the end of the coccyx of which the human body will be recreated on the Day of Resurrection." (See Hadith No. 338) (Book #60, Hadith #457)


Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Between the two blowiings of the trumpet (there would be an interval of forty). They said: Abu Huraira, do you mean forty days? He said: I cannot say anything. They said: Do you mean fortv months? He said: I cannot say anything They said: Do you mean forty years? He said: I cannot say anything. Then Allah would cause the water to, descend from the sky and they (people) will sprout like vegetable The only thing in a man which would not decay would be one bone (spinal chord) from which the whole frame would be reconstituted on the Day of Resurrection.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as say- ing: The earth would consume every son of Adam except his spinal chord from which his body would be reconstituted (on the Day of Resurrection).

Abu Huraira reported so many ahadith from Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and amongst these one was this that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: There is a bone in the human being which the earth would never consume and it is from this that new bodies would be reconstituted (on the Day of Resurrection). They said: Allah's Messenger, which bone is that? Thereupon he said: It is the spinal bone.

Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

According to Muhammad, every dead person is decayed by the earth, but what remains is her/her tailbone.

Muhammad stated that when every son of Adam (or person) dies, the earth will dissolve everything of the body but the tailbone. The tailbone is one of the bones in the human body that is least likely to dissolve. The website "Quran and Science" does a great job pointing this out.

The Coccyx

The site claims, as Muhammad did, that the coccyx does not get dissolved or eaten away by the earth. Often, it remains when all other parts of the body have been dissolved/acidified.

However, at other times, it certainly doesn't.

We know that in the sea, whale skeletons are eaten by worms, who dissolve them using acids.

The wispy worms may significantly speed up the whales’ decomposition, Katz said. Researchers previously thought it took decades for a skeleton to break down in the ocean, she said, but the worms consume it in less than a decade.

STUDY: BONE WORMS USE ACID TO DISSOLVE WHALE SKELETONS | UTSanDiego.com

Obviously, if this happens to a whale skeleton at sea, it also happens to human skeletons. The sons of Adam who drowned in the sea will not have spinal chords left from which their bodies will be reconstituted.

If we want to examine bodies that are buried in the earth, we will also see that often, the whole skeleton, not only the spinal chord, is eaten away.

The ship at Sutton Hoo is believed to have contained a body of a king, who was buried sometime in the Middle Ages. There was left nothing of either his body or skeleton, because the acidic acid dissolved all of it.
British Museum - Who was buried at Sutton Hoo?

No trace of a body was found during the 1939 excavation of the Sutton Hoo ship-burial.
Analyses of soil samples for residual phosphate (a chemical left behind when a human or animal body has completely decayed away), taken in 1967 during the British Museum's excavations, support the idea that a body was originally placed in the burial chamber, but that this had totally decayed in the highly acidic conditions at the bottom of the ship.
British Museum - Who was buried at Sutton Hoo?


In 2011, the remains of a young boy who died on the Titanic and was subsequently buried, were exhumed so he could be recognized. He was initially incorrectly identified as being Finnish. No spinal chord remained, but instead there was a fragment of an armbone, and teeth.


Following exhumation of the grave in 2001, which produced in a 2.4-inch-long fragment of an arm bone and three teeth, Parr and colleagues concluded that the child was Eino Viljami Panula, a 13-month-old Finnish infant who drowned with his parents in the disaster.
Titanic's 'Unknown Child' Identified : Discovery News

In Germany and some other parts of Western Europe, archaeologists find bodies that were buried in the peat bogs. Often they were of people who were drowned or executed there in other ways, hundreds of years before Christ. The soil in the bogs has acid concentration which interestingly dissolves the bones, but leaves the rest of the body intact.

Mummification in Bogs


The word mummification usually conjures an image of an ancient Egyptian that has been wrapped in gauze and preserved for thousands of years. However there is a process whereby the forces of nature cause natural mummification. This natural mummification can occurs in several climates. One of these climates is the peat bog; most peat bogs suitable for providing the proper conditions for mummification can be found in Europe. Mummification occurs because of the conditions produced by the bog. Sphagnum moss is the primary component of any peat bog; sphagnum moss grows upwards and completely encases bodies within the bog. When this sphagnum dies it condenses and forms peat, which encases the bodies in a cold, acidic, and oxygen deprived environment. The bacteria and fungi that are responsible for decomposition cannot survive without oxygen, thus the body cannot break down. However the aforementioned acidic conditions have an effect on the preserved bodies. These acidic conditions break down the bones within the bodies while leaving the skin intact. This is why bog mummies have a different appearance than their skin and bones Egyptian counterparts. The skin of a bog mummy is tanned and leather, and due to the absence of bones a bog mummy can be compared to a sack of skin.
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/bio1/BogWeb/StuRep03/Mummy_Coelho.htm



Most of the bodies found in the bogs had skin remaining on them but the bones were eaten away... in some cases, nothing of the bones remained.

Damendorf Man died about 300 B.C. and was discovered thousands of years later in the Eckernförde district of Germany. Unlike some bog bodies, he was flattened by the weight of the peat. Only his skin, nails, and hair (as well as his leather belt and shoes) were preserved.
As P. V. Glob wrote in The Bog People, "The rest of him has completely disappeared as if by magic. A split nearly an inch long in the region of the heart may indicate how he was killed."
http://www.mummytombs.com/bog/damendorf.htm



Although the cocyxx is a strong bone, it also eventually gets decayed in the earth, and disappears. Sometimes this happens to it after it happens to other bones, other times before.


Clearly, Muhammad's claim that the earth dissolves everything of the human body and leaves only the spinal bone is not true.

God obviously did not tell him this, because God would have known that the earth can and does eventually decay human remains, including bones.

Muhammad was a smart man and he did many good things. However, he was not a prophet of God.
 
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Supreme

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I wish Muslims would stop trying to use 'science' to 'prove' things like this. They should just admit that many Hadith are unreliable and inaccurate with today's knowledge- it'll be a little embarrassing, sure, but this is grasping at straws.
 
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TG123

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I wish Muslims would stop trying to use 'science' to 'prove' things like this. They should just admit that many Hadith are unreliable and inaccurate with today's knowledge- it'll be a little embarrassing, sure, but this is grasping at straws.
No Muslim I have spoken to on this forum or outside of it has tried arguing that this hadith is scientifically true, although some sites make that argument.

This post is intended to present yet more proof that God was not speaking through Muhammad. God does not make mistakes.

I encourage our Muslim friends on this forum to read this and respond. Hopefully one day they too will come to the realization that Islam is not the truth, and will turn to Jesus Christ and accept Him as their Saviour and Lord.

My posts are not intended to mock Muhammad or Islam. I have respect both for him and for whoever wrote the Quran, there is a lot of good and true stuff there, and it is a tragedy and travesty that so many spread misconceptions about Islam and Muslims and demonize the religion. Doing such things does nothing to help spread the Gospel.

Instead, my posts are intended to challenge Islam and to show it is not the truth, and encourage Muslims to leave it and come to Jesus Christ instead.
 
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willlowbee

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The bone near our a...um, backside is proof of Islam's Allah? And from this un-decayed bones humans will be resurrected? Would it be an insult to call someone a butt head after that and later on?

The Coccyx is 3–5 caudal vertebrae fused together. And of course these fused bone are made of the same organic biological materials as the rest of the human skeleton, so they decay at the same rate.
And, by the way, the Coccyx burns when you're cremated too.

Corwin Sullivan Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, Beijing, China

The human tail bone, or coccyx, is actually composed of 4 or 5 small vertebrae. These vertebrae are made of the same material as the other bones of the skeleton, and as far as I know they decay at the same rate (which will depend on factors like temperature, moisture, and whether the body is buried or exposed to air or water). Under the right conditions bone can remain intact for centuries, or even fossilise.
Apparently the individual vertebrae of the coccyx are fused together in some people but not in others, so in a dead body in which they were not fused they might eventually separate from each other as the soft tissues holding them together disintegrated.
 
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TG123

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The bone near our a...um, backside is proof of Islam's Allah? And from this un-decayed bones humans will be resurrected? Would it be an insult to call someone a butt head after that and later on?

The Coccyx is 3–5 caudal vertebrae fused together. And of course these fused bone are made of the same organic biological materials as the rest of the human skeleton, so they decay at the same rate.
And, by the way, the Coccyx burns when you're cremated too.

Muhammad taught that only this bone will not decay, and that God will every human being back together starting with this bone. This is obviously an untrue teaching, but I don't see the need for sarcasm. Do you think mockery from us will make Muslims turn away from Islam and towards Jesus?
 
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Lovely Jar

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The bone near our a...um, backside is proof of Islam's Allah? And from this un-decayed bones humans will be resurrected? Would it be an insult to call someone a butt head after that and later on?
050103jplaf_prv.gif


A religion that commands terrorism as proof of love of god, with the incentive terrorist martyrs are assured paradise while other Muslims are not, ridicules itself in the authoring of such garbage.
And when infidels and Muslims are the targets of that Muslim terrorism, the cult that inspires it is not worthy of respect. Especially for such a ridiculous false pseudoscience as this about the coccyx. Regeneration from the tail bone?
All tail bones left strewn about the earth are going to suddenly sprout and rise so as to walk as humans again? :doh:

There are many so called scientific proofs of god in the Qur'an. Cosmology, geology, etc... Many that actual science proves false and as such indicates an omniscient god would not have made that error. But scribes creating the Qur'an long after Muhammad's death would.
 
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Lovely Jar

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Muhammad taught that only this bone will not decay, and that God will every human being back together starting with this bone. This is obviously an untrue teaching, but I don't see the need for sarcasm. Do you think mockery from us will make Muslims turn away from Islam and towards Jesus?
You added that last sentence to your former remarks.
Do you think this thread will cause any Muslim here to turn to Christ?
Just so you know, Muslims believe in Isa (Jesus).
 
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TG123

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You added that last sentence to your former remarks.
Do you think this thread will cause any Muslim here to turn to Christ?
Just so you know, Muslims believe in Isa (Jesus).
I don't know whether or not my thread will have an impact. What I do know is that I have a Christian friend who was once a Muslim, and the reason she became interested in Christianity and eventually converted is because the Christians she had in her life then showed her love and respect and when discussing her religion, were respectful even as they disagreed.
 
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TG123

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050103jplaf_prv.gif


A religion that commands terrorism as proof of love of god, with the incentive terrorist martyrs are assured paradise while other Muslims are not, ridicules itself in the authoring of such garbage.
And when infidels and Muslims are the targets of that Muslim terrorism, the cult that inspires it is not worthy of respect. Especially for such a ridiculous false pseudoscience as this about the coccyx. Regeneration from the tail bone?
All tail bones left strewn about the earth are going to suddenly sprout and rise so as to walk as humans again? :doh:

There are many so called scientific proofs of god in the Qur'an. Cosmology, geology, etc... Many that actual science proves false and as such indicates an omniscient god would not have made that error. But scribes creating the Qur'an long after Muhammad's death would.
God in the Bible caused bones to dance, and He made Eve out of Adam's rib, so the claim that He will put us back together from out tailbones in my opinion is not necessarily an absurd one. We can't prove it false, and we have no idea how He will resurrect us.

The error in the hadith is that it states that the earth gets rid of everything of the human body but the tailbone. That claim is false and it can be demonstrated to be as such.
 
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TG123

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where is the tailbone for those who were cremated. ect,

I think God is more than capable to raise everyone regardless of tailbones ect.

and God will raise every one,on that day that's coming. sooon

Amen to almost everything you said. God will certainly resurrect us. Whether that day comes soon or now or in a million years, only He knows.
 
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Robban

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God in the Bible caused bones to dance, and He made Eve out of Adam's rib, so the claim that He will put us back together from out tailbones in my opinion is not necessarily an absurd one. We can't prove it false, and we have no idea how He will resurrect us.

The error in the hadith is that it states that the earth gets rid of everything of the human body but the tailbone. That claim is false and it can be demonstrated to be as such.

In Jewish tradition, the very body that died will be resurrected,
there is a miniscule bone in the upper spine called the luz bone.
it is from this indestructable bone that God will reconstruct the entire body when the time arrives for the resurrection of the Dead.

No doubt your friend Lo-Ammi will be able to give you details.

I have left these parts some time ago.
 
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like eagleswings

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In Jewish tradition, the very body that died will be resurrected,
there is a miniscule bone in the upper spine called the luz bone.
it is from this indestructable bone that God will reconstruct the entire body when the time arrives for the resurrection of the Dead.

No doubt your friend Lo-Ammi will be able to give you details.

I have left these parts some time ago.
which parts have you left,i hope your still alive bro.:D
 
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willlowbee

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God in the Bible caused bones to dance, and He made Eve out of Adam's rib, so the claim that He will put us back together from out tailbones in my opinion is not necessarily an absurd one. We can't prove it false, and we have no idea how He will resurrect us.

The error in the hadith is that it states that the earth gets rid of everything of the human body but the tailbone. That claim is false and it can be demonstrated to be as such.
The Hadith, like the Qur'an,was written long after Muhammad's death. And it is what amounts to a personal journal in today's parlance, not a holy text like the Qur'an. Which is the only sacred book attributed to god in Islam.

The coccyx myth can not be proven to be false as far as relates to what god will use to resurrect the whole human former owner of it. Well, that may be true, however that the coccyx does decompose as a pathological fact is proof there would be no coccyx left to reconstruct a body from.
 
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Islam_mulia

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My response is as follows:

i) I do not take the hadith as any scientific evidence of anything. In this context, I was looking at the spiritual message, that man will be brought back to life on the Day of Resurrection to account for his deeds;

ii) Even if I entertain your ideas of 'scientific error', the coccoyx was never really disintegrated, the DNA of the bones still exist, and will be reconstituted on the Day of Judgement. If you are a scientific genius to disprove the Quran and hadith, prove to us that the DNA of the coccoyx was non existent when the body was long buried. :)
 
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TG123

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Salaam Alaikum, and thank you for your response.

My response is as follows:

i) I do not take the hadith as any scientific evidence of anything. In this context, I was looking at the spiritual message, that man will be brought back to life on the Day of Resurrection to account for his deeds;
If Muhammad only said that man will be brought back to life on the Day of Resurection to account for his deeds, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As a Christian, I believe that too. :)

However, the claim was made not only that there will be a resurrection, but that there is a bone in the human body (namely, the coccyx) that will does not decay. Obviously, that is false.

(1) Narrated Al--Amash: Abu Huraira said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Between the two sounds of the trumpet, there will be forty." Somebody asked Abu Huraira, "Forty days?" But he refused to reply. Then he asked, "Forty months?" He refused to reply. Then he asked, "Forty years?" Again, he refused to reply. Abu Huraira added. "Then (after this period) Allah will send water from the sky and then the dead bodies will grow like vegetation grows, There is nothing of the human body that does not decay except one bone; that is the little bone at the end of the coccyx of which the human body will be recreated on the Day of Resurrection." (See Hadith No. 338) (Book #60, Hadith #457)

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Between the two blowiings of the trumpet (there would be an interval of forty). They said: Abu Huraira, do you mean forty days? He said: I cannot say anything. They said: Do you mean fortv months? He said: I cannot say anything They said: Do you mean forty years? He said: I cannot say anything. Then Allah would cause the water to, descend from the sky and they (people) will sprout like vegetable The only thing in a man which would not decay would be one bone (spinal chord) from which the whole frame would be reconstituted on the Day of Resurrection.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as say- ing: The earth would consume every son of Adam except his spinal chord from which his body would be reconstituted (on the Day of Resurrection).

Abu Huraira reported so many ahadith from Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and amongst these one was this that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: There is a bone in the human being which the earth would never consume and it is from this that new bodies would be reconstituted (on the Day of Resurrection). They said: Allah's Messenger, which bone is that? Thereupon he said: It is the spinal bone.

Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)


ii) Even if I entertain your ideas of 'scientific error', the coccoyx was never really disintegrated, the DNA of the bones still exist, and will be reconstituted on the Day of Judgement. If you are a scientific genius to disprove the Quran and hadith, prove to us that the DNA of the coccoyx was non existent when the body was long buried. :)
Muhammad clearly said that what will be left will be a bone, and went on to say specifically that it will be the coccyx.

In the Free Medical Dictionary, a bone is defined as:
1. the hard, rigid form of connective tissue constituting most of the skeleton of vertebrates, composed chiefly of calcium salts.
2. any distinct piece of the skeleton of the body.



bone - definition of bone in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

The coccyx is defined as:

coccyx /coc·cyx/ (kok´siks) tail bone; the small bone caudal to the sacrum, formed by union of three to five rudimentary vertebrae, and forming the caudal extremity of the vertebral column.

coccyx - definition of coccyx in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


To state that Muhammad meant DNA when he clearly said "bone" and even described which one, to me, is an attempt to change his words.

However, even if we want to assume that by "bone" and "coccyx", Muhammad meant its DNA, the statement

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as say- ing: The earth would consume every son of Adam except his spinal chord from which his body would be reconstituted (on the Day of Resurrection).

would still not be true, because during a cremation, the DNA gets destroyed. That is why it is collected from bodies before they are cremated, not afterwards.
 
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Islam_mulia

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Salaam Alaikum, and thank you for your response.


If Muhammad only said that man will be brought back to life on the Day of Resurection to account for his deeds, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As a Christian, I believe that too. :)
Then there is no difference in our belief of the Day of Resurrection.

However, the claim was made not only that there will be a resurrection, but that there is a bone in the human body (namely, the coccyx) that will does not decay. Obviously, that is false.
I dont think the focus was on the coccyx. There was 'no claim'. Rather the message was on the Day of Reckoning. Nobody was stressing on the scientific miracle/discovery. Only you were starting something on the hadith scientific miracle. Thought that was quite mischevious.

If you want to highlight on the scientific content of the hadith, then why not continue talking about how the bones could miraculously joined together, from the coccoyx? If that is possible with God, then what is impossible about the undestructiveness of the coccoyx?
 
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