Muhammad (pbuh), the Last Prophet

[Islam_mulia]

I don't understand why the lack of any mention of future prophets means that there are definitely none coming. If I told you that the mail came today would you automatically assume that it was the last of the mail just because I failed to mention that more would come tomorrow?

If God decided that another prophet would come after Muhammad (pbuh), God would reveal it in the Quran. Why would God be silent on a future prophet and instead declared that Islam would prevail over other religions, and that God has perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. Does that sound like another faith to come after Islam?

If you believe in the Quran as the book from God, you would know God does not fail (as you stated above).

But it WAS perfected for "them". No Baha'i would disagree with that. "Them" being the people of the Arabian peninsula in the seventh century (and then some). It was the cure for the disease that plagued their society. That doesn't mean that the same cure would work for all societies of all times and conditions. This is precisely the reason the Qur'an was not revealed before it was.

Now, you are trying to be picky nitty. You are trying very hard to validate the false prophets Bahaullah and the Bab by claiming the Quran is suitable for 7th Century Arabs.

The message of the Quran is for mankind (not for the Arabs of the 7th Century alone). I am of course amused that you would try very hard to twist the Quran again and again to prove that Bahaullah was the true prophet.

The problem here is in your paraphrasing what Baha'u'llah said and therefore putting your own spin on it. Obviously if Baha'u'llah confirms that the Qur'an is revealed by God then He also confirms what is written in it. It's your interpretation of that verse that differs from what Baha'u'llah says.

The fact is, Bahaullah's writings are full of inconsistencies and contradictions, which only point to his writings being not from God.

The bible says God is not the author of confusion. Here we have Bahaullah claiming Muhammad (pbuh) was the last nabi and rasul, and you trying to say that Bahaullah did not mean that.

Is that not confusion?

 

[TrevorKamal]

If God decided that another prophet would come after Muhammad (pbuh), God would reveal it in the Quran. Why would God be silent on a future prophet

Do Christians believe that there's any mention of Muhammad in the Bible? If not then you have your answer as well as the answer to a follow-up question.

and instead declared that Islam would prevail over other religions, and that God has perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. Does that sound like another faith to come after Islam?

It doesn't sound like either a confirmation or a denial of another coming. That's my point. It doesn't address it in that passage.

If you believe in the Quran as the book from God, you would know God does not fail (as you stated above).

I never said anything about God "failing" and that word has a much different conotation in the way that I used it in the mail analogy.

Now, you are trying to be picky nitty. You are trying very hard to validate the false prophets Bahaullah and the Bab by claiming the Quran is suitable for 7th Century Arabs.

I'm not trying to validate or invalidate anyone. Please stop assuming that I'm your enemy or something. I'm just laying things out how I see them and some of your arguments don't make much logical sense to me. I'm not saying Muhammad was not the last of the prophets, i'm saying that I don't understand how you can be sure that He is?

The message of the Quran is for mankind (not for the Arabs of the 7th Century alone). I am of course amused that you would try very hard to twist the Quran again and again to prove that Bahaullah was the true prophet.

Again, i'm not trying to prove anything, you are. I'm just not seeing any proof in some of the things you are.

The fact is, Bahaullah's writings are full of inconsistencies and contradictions, which only point to his writings being not from God.

So is the Qur'an if you get your infomation from biased anti-islamic websites (and the website you cited in the other thread was very biased toward Baha'is).

The bible says God is not the author of confusion. Here we have Bahaullah claiming Muhammad (pbuh) was the last nabi and rasul, and you trying to say that Bahaullah did not mean that.

Is that not confusion?

As I told you before, you're misquoting Baha'u'llah with your paraphrasing. I don't think the confusion comes from God. It comes from man.

 

[BruceDLimber]

do you know about any major bahai webforums or anything? i like to read and then ask questions... i have been very curious about bahai because of the way the posters here are always so patient, forgiving and optimistic about people... i do not think it is a coincidence

Hi, Bunny, and thank you for your kind words!

I'll provide you a whole list of Baha'i websites below.

And one of the best Baha'i forums is the discussion area at Planet Baha'i! It has a great group of folks, both Baha'i and other. You can find it at:

www.planetbahai.org

(It has occasional live chats, too, but the major action there is in the discusison area.)

I wish you good hunting, and please feel free to post questions at Planet Baha'i! Everyone there will be most happy to respond!

All the best,

Bruce
_ _ _ _ _

Some Baha'i websites:

For general information about the Baha’i Faith, please visit:

www.bahai.org or www.usbnc.org or www.bahai.us
or www.info.bahai.org

To see our scriptures and related materials, including our Peace Statement, Prosperity Statement, Race Unity Statement, and Destiny of America Statement:
· www.ibiblio.org/Bahai (This site has includes a search engine.)
· www.bahai-library.org (Click "Baha'i Writings" for our scriptures.)
· www.reference.bahai.org (This site is multi-lingual.)
· www.bahaistudy.org (This also has videos and talking books.)

To use OCEAN, an online collection of the scriptures of many religions, with a searchable concordance:

www.BahaiResearch.com

There's an excellent group of informal discussion areas about the Baha'i Faith at:

www.planetbahai.org (click "Forums").

For information on how the Baha'i Faith has fulfilled prophecies:
d
http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled

To see an online video of the eight Baha'i temples (one per continent) around the world, including the still-under-construction Chile temple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2FQAQBI0fg

To enjoy Baha’i-oriented music:

www.RadioNur.com

To download and view other Baha'i videos:

http://www.us.bahai.org/media/index.html


You may often find "Baha'i Faith" listings in the White Pages of your phone book.

In the USA, you can also phone 1-800-22-UNITE for free information and literature, and—if you like—to find out where the nearest Baha'is are.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Even Bahaullah agrees that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last nabi and rasul.

Wrong, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!

Baha'u'llah says Muhammad was indeed the last nabi (lesser prophet), but NOT that He was the last Ras'ul (major Divine Messenger)!

There will NEVER be an end to Divine Messengers (Ras'ul).

I strongly urge those who want accurate information about the Baha'i Faith to examine independant sources of information and NOT to rely merely on the attacks Islammulia posts or the statements of Baha'is themselves.

We aren't afraid of being examined or of questions. But we do object when individuals post clearly false statements about the Faith.

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

I hope you had a very happy birthday, Trevorkamal!

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

the website you cited in the other thread was very biased toward Baha'is.

Knowing what I do of what Islammulia posts, I'm sure that in fact you meant the site he uses is very biased AGAINST Bah'ais. :-S

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Islam_mulia]

From this

Even Bahaullah agrees that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last nabi and rasul. See my post earlier. No bahai has disagreed on the writings of Bahaullah.

We have Bruce screaming:

Wrong, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!

Baha'u'llah says Muhammad was indeed the last nabi (lesser prophet), but NOT that He was the last Ras'ul (major Divine Messenger)!

There will NEVER be an end to Divine Messengers (Ras'ul).

Maybe Bruce and other Bahais could seriously consider what their prophet, Bahaullah, the one they called the Manifestation of God, said about Muhammad (pbuh) being the last nabi and rasul:

Glorified art Thou, O Lord my God! I beseech Thee by Thy Chosen Ones, and by the Bearers of Thy Trust, and by Him Whom Thou hast ordained to be the Seal of Thy Prophets and of Thy Messengers, to let Thy remembrance be my companion, and Thy love my aim, and Thy face my goal, and Thy name my lamp, and Thy wish my desire, and Thy pleasure my delight.
http://bahai-library.org/compilations/prayers/bp.html

and

Salutations and peace be upon the Lord of mankind, the educator of the nations, He, through whom messengership [risálat] and prophethood [nubuwwat] have been consummated [intahat].
(Bahá'u'lláh, Ishráqát 293, provisional translation)

I strongly urge those who want accurate information about the Baha'i Faith to examine independant sources of information and NOT to rely merely on the attacks Islammulia posts or the statements of Baha'is themselves.

We aren't afraid of being examined or of questions. But we do object when individuals post clearly false statements about the Faith.

Bruce

How are my statements 'false'? I have not seen any Bahai made any critical refutation of what I wrote above. Similarly, for the word 'biased' you used against me.

Remember, I do not attack your faith. I merely refute what you are trying to do - to twist the word of God to validate a false prophet.

 

[Snowbunny]

hola islam_mulia,

i think in fairness to BruceDLimber you have cherry picked a single selection of his post to make him seem wild. he is frustrated... you do not appear very willing to listen to his perspective and the conversation about baha'i that you posted earlier was a total mischaracterisation... for example you told us that in the thread we would learn about all of these bad things like political asassinations by their prophet... but there was much more to the thread than that (including very reasonable answers to your allegations)... you seemed to only highlight the things from your posts.

perhaps it would be more conducive to discussion for you to give BruceDLimber's posts more consideration... that way he would not feel frustrated and would not use large fonts and underlines.

i for one (and it appears i am not the only person) have not seen any serious refutation of the logical argument presented by the baha'is that revelation comes in cycles, and the newer baha'i prophets (excluding mohamed) are the beginning of a new cycle. the baha'i answer seems to fit my earlier qustion about islam from the beginning of this thread quite well.

please, discuss this issue without baiting each other, we have enough attack threads on NCR and the moderators are tired of my constant reports i am certain

que Dios te bendiga

 

[anatolian]

Wrong,
Baha'u'llah says Muhammad was indeed the last nabi (lesser prophet), but NOT that He was the last Ras'ul (major Divine Messenger)!

Bruce

salam bruce, what does it mean Muhammed-aleyhissalam- was the last Nabii(lesser prophet) and a Rasul at the same time but not final Rasul? I mean what makes Him the last Nabii?

 

[Islam_mulia]

Knowing what I do of what Islammulia posts, I'm sure that in fact you meant the site he uses is very biased AGAINST Bah'ais. :-S

Peace,

Bruce

It does not matter what sites I used. When I present something, I always provide reference and give my reasons for my presentations.

The onus is on you and others, who twist the Quran, to prove what I wrote was wrong.

The fact is, many of the writings of the Bab and Bahaullah are full of contradictions and errors. What I did was merely providing one example, above.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Islammulia, I already explained in a previous post how EVERY DIvine Messenger can be called the Seal of the prophets without implying any end to Messengers. So feel free to reread that if you need to.

The fact that Muhammad had the title Seal is no problem whatever, the more so given that, as I also pointed out, the word in the Qur'an says He is the seal of the nabi (minor prophets).

But of course I'm now repeating myself.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

I appreciate your kind words, Bunny!

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi, Anatolian!

[W]hat makes Him [Muhammad] the last Nabii?

The Qur'an says (literally) that He is the Seal of the nabi.

(With the caveat that, as I mentioned before, the word commonly translated as "seal" also has the meaning "ornament.")

Many regards,

Bruce

 

[Snowbunny]

hola

wikipedia has a wonderful article about this phrase Bruce is right, it says 'Khatam-an-Nabiyyin' which means 'seal of the nabi' not rasul.

que Dios te bendiga

 

[Snowbunny]

It does not matter what sites I used. When I present something, I always provide reference and give my reasons for my presentations.

The onus is on you and others, who twist the Quran, to prove what I wrote was wrong.

The fact is, many of the writings of the Bab and Bahaullah are full of contradictions and errors. What I did was merely providing one example, above.

hola Islam_mulia

if i may ask... have you actually personally read the writings of the bab and bahaullah? like... not excerpts from webpages but the actual texts themselves...

que Dios te bendiga

 

[français]

muslims -

so if mohammad was supposingly the last prophetof all, then why would mohammad, a rasul, in the quran be called the seal of the nabi. that doesn't make any sense. if mohammad was the seal of the rasul, why wouldn't it say that? why would it say nabi and not rasul? it makes no sense.

also, if mohammad was the seal.. then what about the mahdi?

and it is to my undertsnading that Baha'is believe that the Bab was the mahdi, and baha'u'llah jesus.. in a spiritual sense. is that correct Baha'i?

also islam mulia, you said that if more messengers were to come, then it would have been predicted in the quran.. might i ask.. where exactly is mohammad predicted in the Bible!! oh, but that's right.. muslims just use the claim that the Bible has been corrupted for everything.they think that it all of a sudden makes thigns better, even though they seem to forget that writings of early Christians still exist from the time of, or shortly after Jesus. (Ignatias of Antioch is one)

 

[Bookofknowledge]

why would it say nabi and not rasul?

what is the difference between Nabi and Rasool?

 

[Islam_mulia]

also islam mulia, you said that if more messengers were to come, then it would have been predicted in the quran.. might i ask.. where exactly is mohammad predicted in the Bible!! oh, but that's right.. muslims just use the claim that the Bible has been corrupted for everything.they think that it all of a sudden makes thigns better, even though they seem to forget that writings of early Christians still exist from the time of, or shortly after Jesus. (Ignatias of Antioch is one)

1. We are discussing the 'brethren' in Deuteronomy and I am quite satisfied with the outcome of our discussion. Muhammad (pbuh) was prophecised in Deut. and other parts of the Bible, however, this is not the thread to discuss.

2. I am not sure what Ignatius has to do with Muhammad (pbuh) being the last prophet - which, if you have forgotten, is the original post.

 

[français]

1. We are discussing the 'brethren' in Deuteronomy and I am quite satisfied with the outcome of our discussion. Muhammad (pbuh) was prophecised in Deut. and other parts of the Bible, however, this is not the thread to discuss.

2. I am not sure what Ignatius has to do with Muhammad (pbuh) being the last prophet - which, if you have forgotten, is the original post.

you have GOT to be kidding me. oh my goodness. what pure ignorance. i can't believe you. how can you hoenstly think that refers to mohammad? wow.. you REALLY twist and turn things to fit to your own agenda. how sickening. it's no wonder that bruce got loud at you.. who wouldn't!!

that makes me hurl that someone believes that Deuteronomy 18:18 refers to mohammad. how stupid.

let's put it this way.. let's say i was a prophet.. and let's say i was a Jew!

And the Lord said to me: I will arise a prophet, from your brethern, who will be like you"

how in Gods name does that sound like it's referring to the arabs? my goodness.

i know that i am ignorant, but i at least don't deny something wehn it's the fact. not something like this, when it's plain simply that it's talking about the Jews. i have totally lost all credibility from you. you might have lost credibility from me a long tiem ago. i really don't care. but you obviously are wrong on this issue, just as you are with the Baha'is. the Baha'is have to explain themselves time after time after time. why can't you just accept it and move on? my goodness.

 

[Futuwwa]

let's put it this way.. let's say i was a prophet.. and let's say i was a Jew!

And the Lord said to me: I will arise a prophet, from your brethern, who will be like you"

how in Gods name does that sound like it's referring to the arabs? my goodness.

Well, the Arabs descend from Abraham too.