MP-EP updates?

[ArmyMatt]

I don't think it's all Russophobia. these kinds of rivalries crop up from time to time between important Sees.

 

[buzuxi02]

Politicians use divide and conquer and nationalism to further their goals. Make no mistake that the wordly secularist elites of the west are behind this.

 

[buzuxi02]

That's something else. I heard the Ecumenical Patriarch has authority to give autocephalies because of some canons. Is that right or not?

No such canons. Not to mention he never granted autocephaly to the Orthodox Church. Pressure from the U.S. State Dept and a suitcase of cash was all it took for the EP to STOP recognizing the Orthodox Church of Ukraine and start backing an invented state religion to rival the one and only canonical Church.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Is the conflict based on Russophobia? Because everyone who is in favor of the EP mentions how evil Russians are.

My take on it... In the Ukraine, you have ethnic Russians, who look across the border and see brothers. Then, you have ethnic Ukrainians, who look across the border, and remember decades of "enemy occupation", during the Soviet era. Scars take time to heal

That's something else. I heard the Ecumenical Patriarch has authority to give autocephalies because of some canons. Is that right or not?

While the EP can give autocephaly in his own jurisdiction, the problem is whether or not he actually had that jurisdiction, and the fact that he gave autocephaly to schismatics, which is not canonical. I think this has less to do with Russia phobia and more to do with the EP trying to gain favor with the UN and Rome by picking a certain side of this geopolitical tension. I have seen many people say the MP is controlled by Putin which I find rediculous. He might support Putin but I don't see why he wouldn't considering all Putin has done at least with helping the Church grow in Russia. The real issue is that the largest church in Ukraine was the one under the MP and not the schismatics terrorist group that the EP just gave autocephaly too. Nothing like watching "Orthodox" hold icons of Christ while chanting "death to Russians". The EP is meddling where he shouldn't be meddling.

 

[buzuxi02]

. I have seen many people say the MP is controlled by Putin which I find rediculous. He might support Putin but I don't see why he wouldn't considering all Putin has done at least with helping the Church grow in Russia.

The protestant mindset at work. That's what happens when you live in a secular democracy and they constantly drill into your head that God commands a separation of church and state. Soon these people will adopt the protestant mindset that the Church was controlled by Constantine and fell away.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Please Lord no more schisms.


.

 

[SandCastle91]

No such canons. Not to mention he never granted autocephaly to the Orthodox Church. Pressure from the U.S. State Dept and a suitcase of cash was all it took for the EP to STOP recognizing the Orthodox Church of Ukraine and start backing an invented state religion to rival the one and only canonical Church.

I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but do you have a source for this? President Trump is widely regarded as being very soft on Russia and he is even considering withholding $250 million worth of military aid to Ukraine.

 

[Not David]

I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but do you have a source for this? President Trump is widely regarded as being very soft on Russia and he is even considering withholding $250 million worth of military aid to Ukraine.

I read a tweet from a US secretary or administrator who approved an Independent Church in Ukraine.

 

[buzuxi02]

I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but do you have a source for this? President Trump is widely regarded as being very soft on Russia and he is even considering withholding $250 million worth of military aid to Ukraine.

Its common knowledge, infact the Church of Greece is under tremendous pressure from western powers to recognize these schismatics.
The leader of the schismatic church is on record admitting to it:
Newly elected head of OCU thanks U.S. for supporting “independent” Church


Makariy Maletich: Phanar issued Tomos because it was certain of US support

..Earlier, Makariy Maletich stated that the granting of autocephaly to the UOC-KP and the UAOC became possible thanks to the efforts of foreign diplomats: “I know that. The diplomats met with both Filaret and me. There were ambassadors from the USA, Great Britain and others. Meetings were held in order to find out if we are ready to receive the Tomos.”

In addition, at a recent meeting with a State Department representative, Archbishop Elpidophoros of America expressed satisfaction that the US government supports Patriarch Bartholomew...."


The reason that the U.S. wants to canceL the 250 million military aid is because the newly elected head of Ukraine Zelensky is a moderate who wants to resume relations with Russia. Zelensky also doesnt favor this new state religion.

 

[AMM]

New article I saw this morning:

Greek Metropolitan Nektarios of Corfu: We recognize only the canonical Ukrainian Church (+ VIDEO))

 

[StanU]

My take on it... In the Ukraine, you have ethnic Russians, who look across the border and see brothers. Then, you have ethnic Ukrainians, who look across the border, and remember decades of "enemy occupation", during the Soviet era. Scars take time to heal

Then there are ethnic Russians and Ukrainians who look across the border and see the aggressor who annexed Crimea and props up terrorist puppet "states" in the East... not "during the Soviet era", right now. Ukrainian service members are killed and maimed every day, even during so called "ceasefire".

Why do people on the Internet insist on publishing opinions on matters they literally have 0 knowledge on?

 

[StanU]

Yeah, it was such a strange decision to make by Bartholomew. Why pick one of the two schismatic groups to give autocephaly to?Without even giving them some kind of discipline for all the terrorism! Utterly rediculous but of course the US government has to give its opinions. Who really controls the EP?

Because maybe your view of the facts on the ground have nothing to do with the reality?

 

[StanU]

That's something else. I heard the Ecumenical Patriarch has authority to give autocephalies because of some canons. Is that right or not?

Yes, he does. Naturally, MP disagrees.

 

[StanU]

Yes, but he never headed the Ukranian Orthodox Church just a vagante spurious sect. Which is the entire point, no one can declare autocephaly to a structure that does not exist. By the way what's funny is if he personally recieved this autocephaly then the current sect is null and void as Filaret has schismed away from this new creation like a week ago and took some parishes who support him along.

Just BTW, not only Filaret headed the Ukrainian Orthodox Church as Exarch, he also briefly headed the Russian Orthodox Church as locum tenens (before losing the election to Alexii). He is, in fact, the founder of the autonomous UOC Onufrii now heads. And, of course, he did NOT "personally receive this autocephaly". If you mean "Tomos", then it was Met. Epiphanii who received it (and no, it was not given to "UOC - Kyiv Patriarchate", but rather to the new structure usually called "Orthodox Church in Ukraine", OCU).
It is also not clear whether any parishes (aside from the tiny Belgorod Eparchy in Russia) followed Filaret into what he describes as the re-establishment of UOC-KP.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Yes, he does. Naturally, MP disagrees.

Not to unrepentant schismatics.

 

[StanU]

Not to unrepentant schismatics.

Oh, you refer to those MP defrockings and anathemas?
EP reversed these before he accepted "schismatics" into his jurisdiction. The autocephaly was granted to the re-established Kyiv Metropolis of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Don't assume you know the Canons better than the EP does.

 

[Not David]

Do you know you can have a discussion about a topic without getting aggressive? Like we just had.

 

[StanU]

Do you know you can have a discussion about a topic without getting aggressive? Like we just had.

We could. Perhaps people can start with not accusing millions of people of "terrorism". I would think that is reasonable.

 

[Not David]

We could. Perhaps people can start with not accusing millions of people of "terrorism". I would think that is reasonable.

You have been doing that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

nevermind, I made a boo boo, sorry!